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 Incubi - where are they now?

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Genomir
Slave
Genomir

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PostSubject: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeTue 30 Jul 2019 - 21:35

Hey there, so I have been wondering are Incubi worth taking? Do you run them in any lists of yours or are they just nice to look at models on your shelves?

Personaly I am very torn with them, there pretty high costs and the lack of shooting just seem to make the subpar. Still I can see a niche for them and that is slaying marines.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeTue 30 Jul 2019 - 22:34

They're fine against MEQ. Not great, but fine.

The problem is that they're not very good against most other targets, and we have a lot of other units in our lists which are very good at killing MEQ. There's just no really good reason to take them.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeTue 30 Jul 2019 - 23:56

On my shelve, unfortunately.

I just can't bring myself to justify them on the board. Honestly, I'd rather invest in virtually any other melee unit. Yeah, they are good against MEQ, but that's not something we struggle against to begin with.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeWed 31 Jul 2019 - 9:38

I take Incubi quite frequently.
I still find them to be a decent combat unit, and useful against most heavy armour.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeWed 31 Jul 2019 - 12:32

I might (might) take them if they were 3 to make a unit like last edition. but at 5+ unit size, 1 damage and the price you pay, they are really not worth it.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeThu 1 Aug 2019 - 1:02

Bad, in Apoc they can at least get to something and do something.

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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeSat 3 Aug 2019 - 17:12

Incubi in Drukhari are kinda pointless, unfortunately. I don't mind a single squad in a venom as a rapid reaction unit, but they're not great.

Ynnari gives them a new lease on life. As Ynnari, they can get re-roll 1s to hit thru Ancestor's Grace and re-roll wounds with Unbind Souls or the Inevitable Fate stratagem. That's a level of efficiency they simply do not have access to in Drukhari. They can also get 5++ or get resurrected through psychic powers.

On top of all that, if you have enough of them and the CPs to spare, you can give them Strength from Death (the Ynnari obsession) pregame.

I've been running 2 squads of 5. Each in a raider with a squad of 5 wyches with a shardnet. The units compliment eachother nicely. I call it "stay 'em and flay 'em".
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeSat 3 Aug 2019 - 17:36

@sekac wrote:
Incubi in Drukhari are kinda pointless, unfortunately. I don't mind a single squad in a venom as a rapid reaction unit, but they're not great.

Ynnari gives them a new lease on life. As Ynnari, they can get re-roll 1s to hit thru Ancestor's Grace and re-roll wounds with Unbind Souls or the Inevitable Fate stratagem. That's a level of efficiency they simply do not have access to in Drukhari. They can also get 5++ or get resurrected through psychic powers.

On top of all that, if you have enough of them and the CPs to spare, you can give them Strength from Death (the Ynnari obsession) pregame.

I've been running 2 squads of 5. Each in a raider with a squad of 5 wyches with a shardnet. The units compliment eachother nicely. I call it "stay 'em and flay 'em".

I'll agree that Ynnari Incubi are better than the standard Drukhari ones, but this is still a lot of investment into the unit type with not that exceptional a return. If you're dumping three or four psychic powers and two to four CP into a unit I'd want it to turn into a monster, not just useable.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeSat 3 Aug 2019 - 18:35

@Burnage wrote:
@sekac wrote:
Incubi in Drukhari are kinda pointless, unfortunately. I don't mind a single squad in a venom as a rapid reaction unit, but they're not great.

Ynnari gives them a new lease on life. As Ynnari, they can get re-roll 1s to hit thru Ancestor's Grace and re-roll wounds with Unbind Souls or the Inevitable Fate stratagem. That's a level of efficiency they simply do not have access to in Drukhari. They can also get 5++ or get resurrected through psychic powers.

On top of all that, if you have enough of them and the CPs to spare, you can give them Strength from Death (the Ynnari obsession) pregame.

I've been running 2 squads of 5. Each in a raider with a squad of 5 wyches with a shardnet. The units compliment eachother nicely. I call it "stay 'em and flay 'em".

I'll agree that Ynnari Incubi are better than the standard Drukhari ones, but this is still a lot of investment into the unit type with not that exceptional a return. If you're dumping three or four psychic powers and two to four CP into a unit I'd want it to turn into a monster, not just useable.

First of all, I'm not suggesting you put everything into them every turn. I'm discussing options.

Secondly, very little of that is dumped into one unit. 5++ is an aura, Unbind Souls and Inevitable Fate mark an enemy unit and everything gets re-roll wounds. Ancestor's Grace (re-roll 1s to hit), and Word of the Phoenix to bring them back, are the only things I mentioned that are actually cast on one unit.

Drukhari have force multiplier auras and stratagems that Incubi can't take advantage of and Ynnari have have force multipliers that Incubi can take advantage of.
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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeSun 4 Aug 2019 - 10:38

I'm gonna try running 9 incubi in a raider with the Visarch, see how they do next game but I'm mostly worried about the low damage output even if everything hits and wounds, at this point I'd kill for them to have a 6 to wound does d3 damage, nothing crazy but just something to make them a real threat
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Ruiner
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeSun 4 Aug 2019 - 15:50

I am new to Drukhari, but I was flicking through the codex the other day and read both the incubi and mandrake profiles at the same time. For the same points I just can't see past the mandrakes. I think the incubi models are gorgeous and I am sure will get some at some point, but I don't think I'm going to rush out and pick them up any time soon. The mandrakes just have so much more use than the incubi in my opinion. Would love to see the incubi get made a bit beefier on the attack!
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeTue 6 Aug 2019 - 2:59

@Ruiner wrote:
I am new to Drukhari, but I was flicking through the codex the other day and read both the incubi and mandrake profiles at the same time. For the same points I just can't see past the mandrakes. I think the incubi models are gorgeous and I am sure will get some at some point, but I don't think I'm going to rush out and pick them up any time soon. The mandrakes just have so much more use than the incubi in my opinion. Would love to see the incubi get made a bit beefier on the attack!

The real reason for Incubi is the Klaivex. Lethal Precision and the Onslaught stratagem means your squad leader can kill a MEQ character by themselves.

It all sort of depends on what your army needs. Mercenaries are not meant to be as good the dedicated Kabal, Cult or Coven units. They are there to patch a need without having to take an entire detachment in order to keep your Obsession.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeTue 6 Aug 2019 - 15:33

@Ruiner wrote:
I am new to Drukhari, but I was flicking through the codex the other day and read both the incubi and mandrake profiles at the same time. For the same points I just can't see past the mandrakes. I think the incubi models are gorgeous and I am sure will get some at some point, but I don't think I'm going to rush out and pick them up any time soon. The mandrakes just have so much more use than the incubi in my opinion. Would love to see the incubi get made a bit beefier on the attack!

I also struggle to bring Incubi over Mandrakes.

Probably the biggest factor is that they don't need a transport (even a bare-bones Venom almost doubles the cost of each Incubi squad).

What's more, I've often had my transports shot down, potentially leaving melee units stranded in no man's land.

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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeWed 7 Aug 2019 - 1:35

Increasingly I am thinking the whole point of them is a turn 3 Onslaught coupe de gras.
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Ruiner
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeThu 8 Aug 2019 - 21:14

@False Son wrote:

The real reason for Incubi is the Klaivex.  Lethal Precision and the Onslaught stratagem means your squad leader can kill a MEQ character by themselves.  

That does look like a decent combo, but for me the Mandrakes seem more flexible with the baleblast - looks good at clearing both hordes and tougher units with the mortal wounds. Definitely take your point though.

Are the Incubi models finecast? If they aren't, that's one point they score over the Mandrakes Laughing
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeThu 8 Aug 2019 - 22:33

@Ruiner wrote:
@False Son wrote:

The real reason for Incubi is the Klaivex.  Lethal Precision and the Onslaught stratagem means your squad leader can kill a MEQ character by themselves.  

That does look like a decent combo, but for me the Mandrakes seem more flexible with the baleblast - looks good at clearing both hordes and tougher units with the mortal wounds. Definitely take your point though.

Are the Incubi models finecast? If they aren't, that's one point they score over the Mandrakes Laughing

Incubi are finecast, sadly.
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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeFri 9 Aug 2019 - 0:11

@Burnage wrote:
@Ruiner wrote:
@False Son wrote:

The real reason for Incubi is the Klaivex.  Lethal Precision and the Onslaught stratagem means your squad leader can kill a MEQ character by themselves.  

That does look like a decent combo, but for me the Mandrakes seem more flexible with the baleblast - looks good at clearing both hordes and tougher units with the mortal wounds. Definitely take your point though.

Are the Incubi models finecast? If they aren't, that's one point they score over the Mandrakes Laughing

Incubi are finecast, sadly.

I've got 5 of the metal versions of the 5th ed sculpt, before they went all in on finecast (as well as 10 finecast ones). My beast pack is all metal too!
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeMon 12 Aug 2019 - 10:05

Will the Incubi be viable with the rise of Space Marines? Will the old thematic combo Archon and Incubi bodyguards see play?

What about Drazhar?

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeMon 12 Aug 2019 - 16:54

I don't think the new space marines will change anything. Our other MEQ weapons are just better overall.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeMon 12 Aug 2019 - 22:41

@Azdrubael wrote:
Will the Incubi be viable with the rise of Space Marines? Will the old thematic combo Archon and Incubi bodyguards see play?

Highly doubtful.

Firstly because Archons can do naff-all for Incubi.

Second because I don't see Incubi being the answer to any of the new Marine buffs. If anything it seems like Incubi are going to be even worse against them (e.g. enjoy d3 mortal wounds when you charge).


@Azdrubael wrote:
What about Drazhar?

Halve his price and we'll talk. Until then I trust him with the vital duty of guarding my shelf.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeMon 12 Aug 2019 - 23:20

NOPE if anything they are worst now, with Drop pods turn 1, 3++ vets (AP dont matter) and the new Impolsor (Which is basically SM wave serpent, T7, 11 wounds, 3+/4++, anti-fly weapons for 80-100pts and PL 4......)

We will see about 9 marines units, 3 Primaris, 3 Devs, 3 Vets, 2-3 Drop pods, 2-3 Impolsor's and maybe 2-3 Bike units, and no more smash captains b.c SM Sargents can get 5 attacks with thunder hammers now, with +1 to hit fly units and new stratagems, dont need to smack fliers in melee, all anti-tank will shoot flyers and melee the non airborne units.


I think we will need more Dis and anti-vehicle weapons.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeTue 13 Aug 2019 - 11:13

@amishprn86 wrote:
NOPE if anything they are worst now, with Drop pods turn 1, 3++ vets (AP dont matter) and the new Impolsor (Which is basically SM wave serpent, T7, 11 wounds, 3+/4++, anti-fly weapons for 80-100pts and PL 4......)

This is more of an aside but I note once again that the Impulsor has the exact same speed as a Raider.

Boy, sure am glad we stripped all the armour off our Raiders to make them go faster. scratch


Also, can I now officially declare Space Marines to be a vastly more mobile army than DE?

- Sms have vastly more mobile HQs, including bikers and jump-pack HQs. Hell, even their Terminators can deep strike, which is still one more built-in mobility option than any of our HQs are allowed.
- In Elites, SMs have yet more characters on bikes, Veteran squads that can take bikes, Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs. We have . . . the Beastmaster I guess? Woot.
- Troops are about even . . . except that their Scouts can Infiltrate.
- Fast Attack. Wow, finally our "fast" army has some fast units. In the same slot where every other army gets fast units (and SMs are no exception). Truly DE are the masters of speed and mobility.  Rolling Eyes
- Heavy Support. Another fast unit! All 1 of them. And it's got 2" more movement than a Whirlwind tank. Go Dark Eldar!

And with the Repulsor, SM's aren't even lacking in fast transports anymore (and theirs actually accommodates a sensible number of passengers).

Seriously, what is DE's claim to speed/mobility at this point?

/Rant

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeTue 13 Aug 2019 - 11:47

Oh for sure, the impulsor makes me mad actually. Yeah all DE/Quins vehicles has open top, but i dont always use it, i dont need 5 Str4 or poison pistols shooting, i'd rather have T7 instead.

Then looking at the voidweaver... PL6 103-108 points for literally everything worst than the impulsor other than -1 to hit.

Its good that SM are getting love, and they got the right love via rules/no soup for better rules (Everyone thinks this new SM format is prepare for 8.5 rules) but the power creep is real over Xenos.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeTue 13 Aug 2019 - 11:48

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Seriously, what is DE's claim to speed/mobility at this point?

Our slowest unit moves 7 inches. Our cheapest transport can move 19 inches without advancing. Our fastest non-Flyer unit can move 28 inches and then charge without using any Stratagems.

We're a mobile army, dude.

Not to say that the Impulsor isn't undercosted, though. It definitely looks like it on paper.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Incubi - where are they now?   Incubi - where are they now? I_icon_minitimeTue 13 Aug 2019 - 12:59

Yes we are still fast/faster for sure, adding in stratagems you can move a raider 29".

Everything is faster base than SM, i dont think marines has any MEQ of a DE unit that can move faster.


BUT, back onto topic, we will see more marines on the table for sure, some Primaris troops, vets/Devs, bikes, drop pods, impulsors, and maybe a WW or another cheap back shooting tank (now that they get docs and traits).

Heck i would be surprise if we need only 3-4 Drop pods with some elite shooting units (Vets/Devs), and then 9-12 super cheap tanks and they play like IG.

So i dont think Incubi are worth it yet, with out AP works, shooting buffs, and melee of 8th, Niche melee units just dont work right now. If you go elite melee it needs to be like Chaos terminators/Plague marines, even custodes struggle with melee right now.

If incubi were cheaper, say 12pts and could be in units as 3, sure i'd say take 3 in a venom with an Archon/Succubus.

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