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 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.

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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

Posts : 46
Join date : 2018-07-02

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PostSubject: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2019, 18:57

Before I share the list allow me to share my goals and how I plan to annihilate lesser races. I do NOT plan to bring AP-0 weapons in bulk, but I will have some. Can't let monsters get too comfortable. I want AP-1 or better on MOST weapons. NO 2+ ARMOR SAVES! I want to make a list where the last man standing is an absolute KILLER! I want a couple horde tools. I want synergies, deadly combos, and multiple problems for my opponents to solve, forcing a LOT of bad decisions and no win situations on them. I think I've done that.

Here are the keys to success:
AP
Not going too expensive on upgrades. (2 tops)
Volume of attacks.
Re-rolls.
Strategms.
Beat sticks (no useless characters)
More than one solution to (almost) any problem.

Harlequin allies (Batallion)

Shadowseer Suit of hidden knives, FoD, VoT
Troupe Master (Fusion pistol) Starmist Rainment
3x5 troupes 2x caress 1x fusion pistol (Silent shroud for silken knife strategm)
Death jester (Dreaming shadow an example made strat)
3x starweavers
Solitaire

Dark Eldar (Batallion)
Archon venom blade soul seeker Lab Cunning
Heamonculus stinger pistol electro whip vex mask diabolical soothsayer (PoF)
1x5 warriors in venom (black heart)
5 wyches blast pistol PGL (+2 ld)
5x wyches blast pistol agonizer. (+2 move)
1x Cronos engine w/spirit probe
1x Dark Creed raider w/dissi and PGL
2x BH raider w/dissi

Dark Eldar (Batallion)
Cult of strife
Succi Agonizer Archite Glave Blast pistol (+1 ws)
Succi tri whip blood dancer. (+1 attack)
5 wyches Shardnet Impaler blast pistol (+1 s)
5 wyches Agonizer blast pistol (+1 attack)
5 wyches agonizer blast pistol (+1 T)
1 razorwing stock.

I have a variety of weapons and strats that should kill nearly anything.

Whatchya think?



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Sarcron
Sybarite
Sarcron

Posts : 277
Join date : 2018-11-05
Location : Hunting Xenos

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2019, 19:22

Uh...

The first two battalions are illegal, because you can't take different sub-factions within one detachment.

In addition, you can't take the razorwing flock without having a beastmaster in there.

Depending on whether or not there's a relic in the harlequins list, you've also gone over the relic limit.

For the actual list itself, you have very little units that can take a hit. You would wiped by even just infantry shooting lines.

I'd recommend picking which two factions of our army you want to play and stick to that, be it a detachment of coven, and cult, or kabal and coven, or a mix of the sort.

The harlequins I can't really comment on because I don't play them, and as such don't have the rules.

_________________
~Kabal of the Black Dawn
~Coven of the Dark Heaven
@Sarcron wrote:
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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

Posts : 46
Join date : 2018-07-02

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2019, 19:32

That was RWJF, stock....not razorwing flock.

There's no rule stating you can't mix sub factions in a detachment. As long as I'm not mixing harlies and DE, and I give up only the obsessions and masque forms. I get the strategems.
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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

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Join date : 2018-07-02

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2019, 19:33

Edit: Archon is warlord.
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Sarcron
Sybarite
Sarcron

Posts : 277
Join date : 2018-11-05
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2019, 20:35

Right, okay, RWJF makes more sense.

Still, you won't get the stratagems, because you don't have any sub-factions. You need the subfactions present to get the stratagems.

EDIT: Oh, I get what you'r trying to say, stuff will still have the <keyword>, and so you'll be able to use the stratagems. Lemme get back to you on that

_________________
~Kabal of the Black Dawn
~Coven of the Dark Heaven
@Sarcron wrote:
Sarcron
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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 29 2019, 23:01

@Sarcron wrote:
Still, you won't get the stratagems, because you don't have any sub-factions. You need the subfactions present to get the stratagems.

EDIT: Oh, I get what you'r trying to say, stuff will still have the <keyword>, and so you'll be able to use the stratagems. Lemme get back to you on that

It works. I don't like it, because the obsessions give a lot of strenght to our units, but it works.
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 30 2019, 03:53

That’s certainly an... interesting list. I agree with your philosophy to building an army but your list doesn’t seem like it adheres closely to that philosophy. I don’t see too many problems for any potential opponent to solve and I don’t see how you have the tools to deal with much. I legitimately don’t know how you would kill a single Knight (blast pistols and a few fusion pistols probably won’t do it.). If you’ve played this list a lot and have had success with it, I would genuinely like to hear how you play this list successfully because to me it just looks like a random assortment of units that die quickly and don’t kill much in return.
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Sarcron
Sybarite
Sarcron

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 30 2019, 05:04

@sweetbacon wrote:
That’s certainly an... interesting list.  I agree with your philosophy to building an army but your list doesn’t seem like it adheres closely to that philosophy.  I don’t see too many problems for any potential opponent to solve and I don’t see how you have the tools to deal with much.  I legitimately don’t know how you would kill a single Knight (blast pistols and a few fusion pistols probably won’t do it.). If you’ve played this list a lot and have had success with it, I would genuinely like to hear how you play this list successfully because to me it just looks like a random assortment of units that die quickly and don’t kill much in return.  

Yeah, despite how good blast pistols look on paper (sort of), you won't be able to use them for anti-tank. Your main source of that, harlequins not forth-giving, is the RWJF, and that won't cut it. You're haemonculus won't be buffing anything, and the foregoing of obsessions significantly drops the value of the units in the first drukhari battalion.

Overall, stratagems are great and all, but they aren't worth giving up obsessions for.

_________________
~Kabal of the Black Dawn
~Coven of the Dark Heaven
@Sarcron wrote:
Sarcron
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Gizamaluke
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Gizamaluke

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 30 2019, 21:12

I think if you're gonna go triple batallion with mixed DE forces you should look into a Brigade, you've got no DE fast attack or elite units present but there are cheap enough good options for both (minimum squad scourge, minimum squad mandrakes) and a couple ravagers to float at the back would be cool.
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Into the darkness
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2019, 13:21

I appreciate all the feedback, but let's look at how this list may deal with certain threats. I have a handful of defensive buffs, including -1 to.hit, -2 with fod and -3 with vot. Imperial knights suffer from decreasing ballistic skill. The LAST MAN STANDING has a strong gun. This means ANY time a knight kills 4 out of 5, they have to waste ammo or SUFFER!

It is NOT true that the heam will not buff anything. Fleshcraft for only 1 cp will be fun, he has the vex mask to void overwatch and let my boys strike first. The cronos will give rerolls to wound while wyches get rerolls to hit from the succies, and the cronos reheals character wounds.

I don't understand the "on paper" argument for blast pistols. The point is to assault. MOST tanks can't fall back and shoot, leaving them in a no win situation. Even if it leaves my troops exposed, the enemy has to shoot wyches or tanks. Leave that last wych alive and I put it back IN a tank, so I'm toting around a handful of pistols and special weapons. Reducing head count and reembarking more power in tanks with most wounds remaining is a powerful late game strategy, as the enemy has lost a lot of mobility by that point.

The drawback of not taking obsessions is that my army is easier to kill. The advantage is that I get to ifnore overwatch, reroll hits AND wounds, pop out several strats, and force my opponent to kill off.....66 tank wounds, 35 character wounds, and 45 character wounds. For this they will need to bring a LOT of weapons. Even Knights can't shoot THAT much!
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Into the darkness
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2019, 13:24

*ignore...and 45 troop wounds.
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Into the darkness
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2019, 13:25

Oh...I forgot....7 monster wounds....+fleshcraft and reheals.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2019, 16:06

You're seriously overvaluing a lot of inclusions here. Have you tried actually playing this list? 6 inch Blast Pistols aren't very effective in practice, and the Vexator Mask - while still good! - isn't anywhere near as good as it could be if you lack a hard hitting melee unit like the Covens ones. The Cronos also isn't going to do a whole lot despite it, again, sounding impressive on paper. It certainly won't be worth using Fleshcraft on.

Mileage may vary on this point but Harlequin players are also quite a bit weaker than Wyches. Roughly 900 points for that Harlequin detachment is a big ask, especially when you're not bringing any Skyweavers.

Honestly, if you switch that mixed Dark Eldar detachment to a Black Heart Battalion and cut out most of your upgrades you'd free up about 200 points and wind up with a much stronger list overall.
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Sarcron
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Sarcron

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2019, 20:43

It's also not an 'on paper' argument for the blast pistols. It's the practicality of them when one tries to actually use them' they generally don't turn out well.

And yeah, as Burnage said, the Cronos won't do too much, and unless you're running it as PoF, you can't even heal it with the haemonculus using fleshcraft.

But whatever. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't have heaps of experience playing Deldar, I've spent more time on nids. Try out your list in a competitive setting- it would be interesting see how well it does. Report back the result and more discussion can be implemented.

_________________
~Kabal of the Black Dawn
~Coven of the Dark Heaven
@Sarcron wrote:
Sarcron
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Archon_91
Wych
Archon_91

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 02 2019, 20:59

The thing is ... is you could do most of that and keep obsessions... And while I love the cronos, its healing ability is meh at best because it requires the cronos to kill models in the fight phase (and it's kinda terrible at doing this) and then only 1 wound no matter how many models it manages to kill, its reroll wound aura is very very limiting as the cronos is very slow compared to the army ... so your army would have to slow down to benefit from it, and it only let's you reroll wounds of 1 ... and from what I can remember of Fleshcraft it could only be used to heal the cronos or heamonculus from that list, I'm curious how a playtest of this list works out ... but a suggestion could be to drop the Harlequin detachment and make a coven one giving your kabal and coven units the benefit of obsessions
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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 03 2019, 00:34

As it stands you've got only 2 coven units. A haemonculus for the Vexator Mask and a chronos for mild combat enhancement and so you have something to spend CPs to heal. Your list could very easily be worked into a wych cult battalion and a Kabal battalion by dropping those 2. The Vexator Mask is good, but not worth losing obsessions for your whole army over.

I understand your point about taking a blast pistol in every squad because they're a threat until they're removed and I mostly agree with that theory. My hangups, is fusion pistol is a cheaper and better version of the same gun. You're taking a 10 point blast pistol that hits on 3+ in T3 unit with 5 wounds and a 6++. Your troupe master hits on a 2+, is T3, with 5 wounds and 4++. Why take a worse gun on a more fragile unit before the better gun on the tougher unit?

It seems like the theory behind the list is to generate a massive pile of CPs (18-20) and taking units that are supported with good stratagems. That theory sounds good in principle. My concern is that when you run out of CPs, you have almost no built-in synergy to keep you going. And considering that you're spending 6 CPs on relics alone, you're going to run out very quickly--especially if you're spending them on things like healing a Chronos.
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Into the darkness
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 03 2019, 23:17

I appreciate the feedback. The point about fusion pistols is a good one, but I don't have the extra points to burn and I want the LAST model of each unit to have a blast pistol. The point about cronos being slow is a good one too. I thought about that. Maybe it's not worth it. If. i give up cronos and the mask I COULD pair the wyches with the harlies and convert to a kabal. This still gets me a TON of rerolls and some blasters to go with. Solid advice. I got some thinking to do. As for harlies, I still need to mix them. -2 leadership doesn't trump strats.
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list.   2k Dark Eldar/Harlequins assault heavy list. I_icon_minitime

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