THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesLatest imagesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Beef against DE

Go down 
+11
Sorrowshard
ZaGstrike
Zehra
Alastair
Todo13
Thor665
Phototoxin
Local_Ork
Saintspirit
Nomic
seether
15 posters
AuthorMessage
seether
Slave
avatar


Posts : 23
Join date : 2011-11-26
Location : D.C.

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 03 2011, 16:34

The only gripe I have with the Dark Eldar Codex is the Madrake entry and their HQ choice Leader. The story makes them out to be extremely awesome choices to field, but their rules make them seem so sad. I mean, the Mandrakes, I can figure out a way to use them (they aren't so different from Tau Stealth Suits, save for the lack of medium range weaponry), but they won't be generally useful in most lists I've started to build.

Their leader. Man. If only he could assault on the turn he arrives. I mean, he can still move and run that turn (se he can rush over toward cover if need be), but the lack of ability to assault makes his 'assassin-like' stats seem less useful. That change alone would at least give me enough interest to field him on occasion. The extra arms are 'meh', but everything else makes it seem like he could be a very effective model. The only downside is that I feel like he has to have a list that is at least partially built around him. -- At least he's only 140 points.

Great models, just not exactly the best for their points.
Back to top Go down
Nomic
Wych
Nomic


Posts : 559
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Finland

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 03 2011, 17:32

Yeah. If the decapitaor had been a mandrake unit champion (with somewhat reduced stats and cost but keeping the pain token and power weapons), he'd have fixed the two major problems they have (no power weapons and won't start with a pain token). Shame, cause mandrake fluff and models are awesome.

About the only other things that bother me is that the incubi lack the tormentor devices they're described having, and that the void mine doesn't live up to the hype in the entry at all (and some usual codex envy. Like why the GK asassins can take their dodge saves against shooting but wytches can't, and why doesn't the vexator mask force a ld check on 3d6 like the Necron mindshacle scarabs so that somebody might actually fail it).

_________________
Tougher than wet kittens, with armour stonger than the dampest cardboard, we are coming for you!
Kabal of Drowned Hope/Cult of the Fatal Kiss/Dark Labyrinth Coven.
Back to top Go down
Saintspirit
Court of Cruelty
Saintspirit


Posts : 1002
Join date : 2011-05-19
Location : Sweden

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 03 2011, 19:53

As I've understood it though, the tormentor devices is what gives the Incubi one of their two attacks... But I agree with what you say. The mandrakes are the part of DE that doesn't work. I think though, that just because one unit in an army has something (like those scarabs you mentioned), every army shouldn't. Assassins are more dodgy than wyches, strange as it may seem. I think though, that succubi should really get a dodge against shooting.

_________________
Kabal of the Shadow Phoenix - Background
Kabal of the Shadow Phoenix - Painting Blog
Modelled: 2753 pts
Painted: 2263pts

shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
Back to top Go down
Local_Ork
Fleshsculptor
Local_Ork


Posts : 1500
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Near good fight!

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 03 2011, 21:05

Beef against DE Tumblr_lje4ylCVfr1qfdqnno1_500

Maybe 6++ since Lelith got 4++ in addition to her 3++ in CC, I agree this gap between 0% and 50% is unreasonable. IMHO 5++ would be too much tho.

As for Mandrakes... I don't see how gun-less Infiltrators may be useful in army with fastest vehicles in game that are cruicial (12" move + Lance). Maybe if You want make foot army, but You should use Codex: SpOrks in the first place (Kommandoes fit there and also can have cool weapons).
IMHO best way to fix Mandrakes would be ability to give Night Fiend Pain Token in price of XX points (30 sounds reasonable) and maybe Rending.

_________________
Beef against DE TattoosigtlBeef against DE TattoosigseBeef against DE Tattoosigow
"Most vile thing you can read. Ever." - Our Forum Rules
Back to top Go down
Nomic
Wych
Nomic


Posts : 559
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Finland

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 10:09

I'm ofcourse talking about the DC Asassins (Temple ones having insane stats and dodge as good as Lelith's makes perfect sense, as they're augmented to the point of making Marines look normal), who are worse at dodging melee hits than Wytches, but much better at dodging bullets (5++ all the time versus 4++ in melee), which doesn't really add up.

I think there really should be more consistency between codexes, so all units with a "dodge" save would work the same, all hallucinogen grenades would have atleast somewhat similar effects (instead of the Harlequin ones giving offensive grenades, the DE ones giving offensive and defensive grenades,exept the vehicle mounted ones which give -1 ld, and GK ones allowing to autowin the first round of combat) etc..

_________________
Tougher than wet kittens, with armour stonger than the dampest cardboard, we are coming for you!
Kabal of Drowned Hope/Cult of the Fatal Kiss/Dark Labyrinth Coven.
Back to top Go down
Phototoxin
Kabalite Warrior
Phototoxin


Posts : 191
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : Southampton, UK

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 23:44

I do wonder if in 6th deep striking will be more random/dangerous but you can assault after - which would make the placeable decapitator really good!
Back to top Go down
http://www.joerogers.info
Thor665
Archon
Thor665


Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05 2011, 01:13

It'd make Duke S. better though - DSing Wyches with drug re-roll...::drool::

_________________
Beef against DE K93hWhs
Beef against DE L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
Local_Ork
Fleshsculptor
Local_Ork


Posts : 1500
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Near good fight!

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05 2011, 01:54

Well, You can do that... no assault and 60~ price increase tho Razz.
I hope Fleet would allow assault after DS in 6th ed.

_________________
Beef against DE TattoosigtlBeef against DE TattoosigseBeef against DE Tattoosigow
"Most vile thing you can read. Ever." - Our Forum Rules
Back to top Go down
Todo13
Kabalite Warrior
Todo13


Posts : 196
Join date : 2011-05-19
Location : Canada

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05 2011, 02:29

I really wish mandrakes were worth fielding, but they suck… a lot especially the decapitator

_________________
Why do we ride atop these elegant craft? The better to hear the screams of our prey as we ride them down, to savour the fear etched on their faces, to taste the tantalising tang of their blood in the air as an appetiser before the feast -Dariaq Bladetongue of the Pierced Eye
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665


Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05 2011, 02:45

Local_Ork wrote:
Well, You can do that... no assault and 60~ price increase tho Razz.
I hope Fleet would allow assault after DS in 6th ed.
Until you can assault the turn you DS - you can't do this.
Back to top Go down
Alastair
Slave
avatar


Posts : 16
Join date : 2011-11-23
Location : UK

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05 2011, 08:57

I've been trying to find a place in my army list to for Mandrakes, and i just can't! It's very frustrating, seeing as the models are absolutley stunning, and as a painter, i'd really like to field them for looks and utility - but not as they stand at the moment.
Back to top Go down
Zehra
In Exile
avatar


Posts : 218
Join date : 2011-07-02

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05 2011, 09:04

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but
*eats the beef*
Mmm, beefy...
Back to top Go down
ZaGstrike
Slave
ZaGstrike


Posts : 20
Join date : 2011-11-28
Location : Sydney

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 15 2011, 00:41

Since the decapitator has baleblast and starts with a pain token i thought the first thing you were supposed to do with him when he arrives is use his shooting thing to hopefully pin whatever he's going to assault the next turn.
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665


Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 15 2011, 01:47

ZaGstrike wrote:
hopefully
I think that about sums it up.
Back to top Go down
Sorrowshard
Sybarite
Sorrowshard


Posts : 361
Join date : 2011-05-31

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 20 2011, 16:02

Ah Derpcrapitator raisis his useless head once more.

back to sleep now precious , this is not your edition ....

_________________
Rant in E Minor
Back to top Go down
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 21 2011, 15:17

I think its down to the author of the codex, DE are a fair and balanced army with many things that sound awesome but suck. Compare that to the author of the GK codex and the Necron codex who does the opposite by creating things that sound good, and are very good and are ridiculously unfair and unbalanced... I mean look at the doomsday barge- St-9 AP-1 large blast- that's what the void mine should be, and should have multiple ones.

Unfortunately a lot of the wargear options available (most of the Haemonicli and vehicle upgrades) are not competitive because of the op of other armies which is a shame.

But then I guess its the fact that DE are an underpowered (largely) and fair army that gives us DE players a sense of pride and accomplishment over others when we do win and a genuine sense of achievement, also something other then dice to blame failures on!

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Darklight
Sybarite
Darklight


Posts : 384
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Stavanger

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 22 2011, 08:20

DE isnt an underpowerd army, its a well balanced army, that does well in turnements and are better than alot of armys infact.

We just have other strenghts and weaknesses than other and use our army differantly. Dont think Necrons, GK etc are owerpowerd at all. Havnt lost to GK yet myself, I find that when they dont tailor list they always end up with a bad matchup in us anyway. When they tailor, sure then we are having some real issues against them...

There are units that dont work as they should, sure, but those exsist in every codex. We have units that are OP aswell.

_________________
Plays Dark Eldar, Eldar and Harlequins.
If you are from norway, check out www.drittunger.no
Back to top Go down
Sorrowshard
Sybarite
Sorrowshard


Posts : 361
Join date : 2011-05-31

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 22 2011, 08:28

We do ? Which ones might those be ? Everything in the book is slightly underpowered for what you pay

_________________
Rant in E Minor
Back to top Go down
kenny3760
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 22 2011, 08:46

Darklight wrote:
DE isnt an underpowerd army, its a well balanced army, that does well in turnements and are better than alot of armys infact.

We just have other strenghts and weaknesses than other and use our army differantly. Dont think Necrons, GK etc are owerpowerd at all. Havnt lost to GK yet myself, I find that when they dont tailor list they always end up with a bad matchup in us anyway. When they tailor, sure then we are having some real issues against them...

There are units that dont work as they should, sure, but those exsist in every codex. We have units that are OP aswell.

If you haven't lost to GK's yet I'd love to know what lists you are facing.

Tend to agree we have a pretty well balanced codex but our AT in the new never stunned/shaken environment (thank-you Mr Ward {d1ck}) just plain sucks. Without spamming as much as possible some lists are just plain impossible to shut down.

The more recent codices leave us trailing in their wake.
Back to top Go down
hellios
Hellion
avatar


Posts : 50
Join date : 2011-10-01

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 22 2011, 09:40

The DE codex is well balanced on the whole... Internally most of the stuff is pretty good... I assume rules for 5th... it is possible they will get better for 6th... Mandrakes are meh and some of the special characters ain't great due to rules or cost... WTF is with Vect and his pimp-wagon... Incubi lacking grenades... Bloodbrides could have something to make them stand out compared to the standard wyches...

The problem is some of the other codices are OTT...

Off the top of my head...

GK: Making space marines strike before armies that rely on speed isn't cool... I5 would have been fine but I6 is OTT... Fortitude is nuts for how cheap it is.

IG: Mech guard is way too cheap... bump chimeras back up to their old points cost and things start to look better. (Or make DE transports 10-20pts cheaper...)

BA: Make everything fast... eeek for the cost I would be happy with movement bonuses or shooting bonuses for vehicles but both combined cause real problems...

Fairly minor changes I think but I believe they would have a significant impact.

Overall it is fairly small things.

Back to top Go down
Grub
Wych
Grub


Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 22 2011, 20:49

agree with the above- as a stand alone codex, all seems fair, compared to Matt Ward ones though-definitely not, basically the Matt Ward codex's have similar rules as the DE codex but pimped a bit, for example Vexator mask and Mindshackle, both are supposed to impede the assaulter, Mindshackle however takes full control and on a 3D6 leadership! That's OP. Void Mine/Doomsday Ark- same essential principle, Matt Ward gives Necrons unlimited St9 Ap2 largeblast we get S9 AP2 small blast, and one shot.

With respect to GK, only lost once to them myself but if done correctly, GK should win most times. Would also REALLY REALLY REALLY like to know what is OP in the DE codex? Only one I can think of is Lelith Hesperax, but then look at the points cost, toughness and strength???

Personally, and the people who I play with, who both frequently play Grey Knights, Necrons and Imperial Guard all admit, that compared to each other they are on a par, compared to armies such as DE, Eldar, Tau etc even they feel that they are OP. A good example was the 3 way 2500 point game we had today- DE vs Tau vs IG. DE obliterated all Tau infantry while could not scratch the Tau Vehicles let alone the 15 IG tanks steamrolling across the board only to destroy everything left, would be good if they brought back the rule that skimmers that have moved at cruising speed may only take glancing hits.

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Darklight
Sybarite
Darklight


Posts : 384
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Stavanger

Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 23 2011, 06:48

kenny3760 wrote:
Darklight wrote:
DE isnt an underpowerd army, its a well balanced army, that does well in turnements and are better than alot of armys infact.

We just have other strenghts and weaknesses than other and use our army differantly. Dont think Necrons, GK etc are owerpowerd at all. Havnt lost to GK yet myself, I find that when they dont tailor list they always end up with a bad matchup in us anyway. When they tailor, sure then we are having some real issues against them...

There are units that dont work as they should, sure, but those exsist in every codex. We have units that are OP aswell.

If you haven't lost to GK's yet I'd love to know what lists you are facing.

Tend to agree we have a pretty well balanced codex but our AT in the new never stunned/shaken environment (thank-you Mr Ward {d1ck}) just plain sucks. Without spamming as much as possible some lists are just plain impossible to shut down.

The more recent codices leave us trailing in their wake.

The lists I played the last times was something like this:
Librarian
5x Termies
15x Grayknights
3x Razorback
3x Dreadnought (one elite)
1x Land rider
1x Stormraven gunship
Psyamo on most of it...

Yes I do agree our AT is a bitch, it is weak at best.
But I dont have much trouble against any Marine tbh, lost most against SW tho, but still managed fine against them. I still have yet to win a game against IG tho, have drawn matches, not won any tho :/ havnt played that many IG teams either...

_________________
Plays Dark Eldar, Eldar and Harlequins.
If you are from norway, check out www.drittunger.no
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





Beef against DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beef against DE   Beef against DE I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Beef against DE
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» My beef with the 'Quins

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

GENERAL DRUKHARI DISCUSSION

 :: Drukhari Discussion
-
Jump to: