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 Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide

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Valk
Slave
Valk

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PostSubject: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 14:33

Core Units
• Haemonculi
• Wracks
• Grotesque
• Talos/Cronos
• Scourges

(Some of you might ask why Scourges are even in a Haemonculi list, Well, they got their wings from the Haemonculi, just like Kabalite warriors submit themselves to them experiments, and end up as Wracks, they share a common ground of augment/mutation improvements)

Topics

1. PAIN FOR THE PAIN GOD!
2. All the Poison!
3. Small, Medium, and Large meat bags
4. It’s not Superman, it’s a Scourge with a Minigun
5. Lots of big guys, or the littler guys?
6. Where are they?


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Valk
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Valk

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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 14:34

Part 1. PAIN FOR THE PAIN GOD!

The new Dark Eldar rules come with something interesting that no other army has, and that is power from pain, after the recent video interview with the creators of the new Dark Eldar, they said something I personally agree with, and that’s Dark Eldar get stronger as the game go on, despite losses in light weight units, and from the games I’ve played, experience proved it right.

Haemonculi army revolves around pain tokens, you need them, they’re not optional, nor should you ever think that they are. The feel no pain is like a constant 4+ “armor” save that’ll save you from just about EVERYTHING, compared to a 6+ armor of NOTHING.

Haemonculi also starts with a Pain Token, Wracks and Grotesque also starts with a Pain Token, put them together in a squad, now you start a game with a squad that has both Feel no Pain and Furious Charge, don’t under estimate the POWER FROM PAIN rule.
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Valk
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 14:34

Part 2. All the Poison

I’ve under estimated the Dark Eldar poison capabilities for a very long time, mainly because I’ve never gotten to know the assaulting part of the game, but after many reviews of the close combat weapon lists, I’ve totally cleaned the board with Wrack squads. Poison weapons have the nice treat of wounding on an X+, for Dark Eldar, that’s a 4+ for most weapons.

Sadly, some people I know go like “poison weapons wound any non armor model on a 4+, big deal.” Slap yourself if you think like this, and now consider this, what one squad in the whole 40k table top game can dish out a good 20+ S8 hits at a Wraith Lord? A Full team of SCOURGES! Because that’s essentially what just happened. S8 vs. T8 = 4+ roll to wound, except it is poison 4+ instead.

Next up, Wracks. Now granted there are lots of Marine grade units out there like, Marines, Chaos Marine/Daemons, Necrons, making Wracks just a little less useful compared to Tau, Eldar, guards, etc, fear not. Wracks have 4+ poison attacks as well, and as we know, they also have a S3 value, yes; it’s there for a handy purpose. 40k rule book states that when strength is = or > than the toughness of the enemy model in close combat, re-roll failed to wounds in close combat. Normally this would allow guardsmen grade units to get wounded easier.

From experience, attaching a Haemonculi with a squad and just furious charging into combat is fun, giving Haemonculi a venom blade and Webway portal as well. Wracks start with Pain Token, and so does a Haemonculi, combining squads give you Furious Charge and Feel No Pain, charge them into assault and you hit first with Initiative 5, and S4 which is = to marine grade model toughness. So, charge into combat, get your extra attacks, buffed Initiative/Strength, and re-roll all those failed wounds, when you get hit back, take your 6+ save, and then your 4+ feel no pain.
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Valk
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 14:35

Part 3. Small, Medium, and Large meat bags

The ‘Meat Bags’ as I like to call them, are the Haemonculi creations Wracks, Grotesque, and Talos/Cronos. They’re the core build around how you’re going to deploy and fight your opponents. Playing a Haemonculi army isn’t like other armies that I’ve messed around with; a Haemonculi army doesn’t fight with speed like the normal Dark Eldar as you may know from lack of Fleet rules.

Some basic rules for your meat bags, Wracks are your back bone, they’re there to soak up wounds in close combat for your Haemonculi to drop the Webway, and fight like your ‘tactical’ marines sense. Grotesque, your psychological meat shield, 3 wounds each and T5, don’t waste them, charge charge charge and assault key positions and don’t stop. Get a max team with no other upgrades, throw a Haemonculi/Ancient in there, pop them out of a portal and assault the closest thing. Note that you can lose 22 wounds before you have to lose a model, and due to Haemonculi, starting with 2 pain tokens already, on the charge with a good 32 S6 attacks, or S7 with Rakarth’s upgrade. This would make even the Ork players cry.

Please, Do Not, and I repeat DO NOT use your Talos as a tank hunter, and for very good reasons, your Talos isn’t going to get there very far, and only has 3 wounds to soak up, it’s also SLOW, a few las cannon type shots and it’s dead… waste of a 100+ points aint it. Charge it at S3 models with chain flail and extra close-combat arm, watch them hit you back, and laugh as you get a free pain token.

Try and field a Cronos whenever possible, if you’re taking a Talos, take a Cronos and pump them out together. Never Ever leave your Cronos out in the open, a smart opponent will shoot the Cronos, an overwhelmed opponent will shoot the Talos, keep them busy on the Talos. Use your Cronos to give Talos Pain Tokens ASAP, nothing like a T7 3+ save model ignoring battle cannon shots and non power weapon attacks, making them larger Targets while your Cronos silently buff them up. Ps. Give the Cronos a Spirit Syphon, as it’s a good assault range weapon with a good strength.

To sum it all up, use your meat bags for the right tasks, with volume of rolls, psych them out and keep them on the run. By the end of the turn, you should be having an evil chuckle as your enemies flee in terror from pain induced meat bags.


Last edited by Valk on Sun Dec 04 2011, 15:35; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 14:35

Part 4. It’s not Superman, it’s a Scourge with a Minigun

Now if you don’t believe the scourges are worthy of a Haemonculi army, ignore this section and give up your only shooting unit aside from the BS2 or BS3 meat bags. Previous section mentioned the awesomeness of using Scourges, and they’re a worthy foe to be feared. The volume of shots makes a guardsmen platoon look like a take home bag of left overs. For 22 pts a model, this is a bit pricey, but for a 10 man team, they pump out 30 shots at 18” range, it’s nothing to laugh at, considering the deep strike potential to clean out a full terminator team. Now if that hasn’t convinced you, replace 4 with splinter cannons, Assault 4/Heavy 6, that’s 34 shots on the move, 42 shots holding ground, yes 42 rolls from 1 squad in the shooting phase, FEAR THEM, and respect them.

Did I mention they move 12” and shoot 18”, so delivering 30+ rolls every shooting phase at a target potentially 30” away (12+18=30), as a Tau player, I give my hat to the scourges that outshoot me. Taking Scourges is a must on tank/infantry heavy army like Nids/Guard/Ork as they can be given Dark Lance, and volume of shots kills swarms fast, 4+ poison will kill any monstrous creatures.
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Valk
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 14:37

Part 5. Lots of big guys, or the littler guys?

To make a Haemonculi army work well, you need at least 1 squad of each, and pending on your point size for the battle and opponent you’re facing, make educated guess as to what you’re faced against. Personally, the balance is up to your feel for how the game should go. My list usually runs 2 maxed Wrack squads each with a Haemonculi. Both loaded in raiders. Grotesque as previously mentioned are the meat shields of your army, if you do run a squad, only run ONE squad unless you’re playing points of 1500+ there’s usually much more important things like Talos and Cronos to field, and the Scourges too, 3 Talos ‘foot slugging’ across the field isn’t going to do much, when in doubt, go with more Wrack teams. (3 wounds vs. 10 wound team)

Just to remind people, Always take a Haemonculi with your Wrack and Grotesque teams, the extra Pain Token helps.
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Valk
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 14:37

Part 6. Where are they?

Notice how I load out my Haemonculi each with a Webway, that’s because I never keep anything out turn 1 for good reasons. My fiancée tends to give my Tau a great target practice while advancing across the board. This is where Raiders come in handy, they give you a lovely Dark Lance to start with, while being a semi costly model, it allows you to deep strike, and the Webway allows you to hold your whole entire army in reserve.

Remember this little phrase, “Wait a turn, save a meat bag”. Regardless of whether or not I go first, I deploy nothing on the field, and keep all my models in reserve, this gives them nothing to shoot at and allows the opponent to move out of formation. Turn 2, deep strike your raiders, Turn 3, you’re your webways. Buying time or wasting turns like this benefits you, it reduces the roll you need to bring in the rest of your army through the webways, and having multiple webways throw the opposing side off as to where to guard, mean while, gives you leverage to choose where to strike at your specimen.

Haemonculi army play style isn’t chase from the outside in, they chase from the inside out. Chasing people down with 6+ armor save is stupid, and 4+ feel no pain isn’t going to get you far when you need to make 5~10 saves. Strike through Webways and chase them off their lawn.

This tactic is especially fun with objectives, don’t sit around and hold objectives, chase your specimen off their objectives and claim it.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 18:53

You should do links to all the sections in the first post - helps justify the multiple posts and would also make the first post serve a useful function and overall aid readability.

Thanks for the effort - fun read. Are you planning to go any more in-depth on this?

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Valk
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 19:04

I could, I just joined today, so i can't post any links right away.

Was there anything in particular that needed clarification?
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Dez
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 19:36

Good stuff, thanks!
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 19:49

Can i ask some questions here so you can answer them maybe by editing your topics?

Why does Haemy army must be webway/foot army? Are you under illusion that you have that much AV to give away all raiders? What will such list do with all mech?

I find that 1 haemy+4 grotesque in raider is still a deadly and mobile force , while footsloggin is a parody of terminators , if not in killing power and survivability than in cost.

Next question - what if your raider with haemy on board dont come till turn 4 - 5, and Talosi DO come before it. Will they footslogg?

You cant not roll on reserve, cant stay units in webway - you *must* deploy them if they roll.

Yeah..you mentioned how Talos isnt tankhunter , how great scourges at AI duty and how good poison on infantry. Thats all true. Thats also 5/6 of your army that cant damage vehicles.
How do you do with them?

You also miss some opportunity - scourges seems really good in haemy list cause they can have that dreaded haywire that can nullify enemy AV. And you can have 3 Talosi with those same linked haywires. What does that means?

That means you potentially can autohit things in CC with Grotesques and Talosi and they wont get away. Lets face it - by taking haemy army you cover most of your AI duty with liquifiers and CC choices , you dont need to divert Talos and Fast Atack on that.

Next question about Haemunculus loadout.
Like some funny Haemy Ancient with Power Weapon, Soul Trap, Shattershard that can go to Strenght 6-7 on FC in one shattershard. 115 points.

And some list would aslo be nice.Cause i never, practically never saw any good list with haemy army.
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Valk
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 21:52

I never stated to roll and not deploy reserves.

You're suppose to deploy the raiders first while the rest deploy through Webways, with the exception from Scourges (they can deep strike on their own)

Going against armor, most units have rear armor 10, S5 bashing will kill it. Scourges can be equip with Dark Lances, Raiders have Dark Lances, and if you really need to, use the Talos to break stuff like Land Raiders if no options are left. scratch

I never said anything about using/not using Ravengers. Exclamation

Haemonculi load outs for me: Venom blade, Webway portal, or only carry Webway portal as some cases they're not expected to live.

Try and use a little imagination, this is a friendly guide, not a competitive guide. Very Happy
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 02 2011, 22:37

@Valk wrote:
Try and use a little imagination, this is a friendly guide, not a competitive guide. Very Happy

I can imagine Thor's face right now Razz

Nah, just joking. Anyway that was pretty good read. Major thing I liked - mentioning Scourges. Most covens pack beasts or hellions (...the hell?), which IMHO belong to Cults or Kabals.

As for Thor's request about links... I can provide links, however I can't post them (not enough power Sad) so You must edit Your first post. Just copy it.

Sadly normal red is mod colour so I've used darker one... You can replace it tho with purple or toxic-green.

[edit] - Thanks very much Local_Ork, I inserted them and Valk can edit them further how he wants. Gob.

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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 03 2011, 04:56

This is a very cool guide. I've started putting together a carnival of flesh for myself.

I'm actually trying to build a fun hybrid wych cult/carnival using Lhameans as hammies. I just need 10 more wracks and some decent models to use for grot conversions and I'll be good to go. I also have a big project brewing in the back of my mind to make a conversion for a "counts as vect and dais" in my hybrid theme.
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Valk
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 03 2011, 15:09

I do wish that GW actually promote the other half of the Dark Eldar content.

The models are out, but looking at the Battleforce and Megaforce, not 1 Wrack or Grotesque are in there. making it rather hard to mass up a meat bag army.

Lhameans would make great Haemonculi, sadly, they're only purpose in my army is for the extra Pain Token, Webway portal and the LD buff for assault, using such pretty models would be wasteful for me.


Last edited by Valk on Sat Dec 03 2011, 16:48; edited 1 time in total
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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 03 2011, 16:35

Those Lhamean hammys look great sitting in a unit of wyches! The main issue they have is mucking up positioning sometimes. Since they're not fleet, they often get left behind to fend for themselves (minus their pain token of course Wink )

I've really been enjoying my hybrid list. My FNP wyches have yet to let me down!
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 04:21

Quote :
Note that you can lose 22 wounds before you have to lose a model

I can?

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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 04:42

Maybe he means wounds prior to saves? I'm not sure it makes any sense either way though. Probably he's just confused about how wound allocation works.

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Valk
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 06:37

Haemonculi Ancient 3 wounds, 10 Grotesque 30 wounds => 33 wounds

You have 11 models that can distribute wounds out evenly, thus you have a buffer of 22 wounds left to the whole squad before you have to start picking off models.




Last edited by Valk on Sun Dec 04 2011, 15:42; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fail to double check rules)
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 06:47

You can only individually allocate to models which are unique from each other. I'd suggest re-reading wound allocation. (pg 26 is the relevant info, in the BRB)

It would work like this;

Ancient Haem
Aberration
Grot w. Liquifier
8 identical Grots

In a perfect world where everything goes your way - you could get 2 wounds on the Haem, 2 on the Liquifier, 2 on the Aberration, and 2 on the Grots. However, the very next wound you took anywhere would obligate you to remove a model.

So - 9 wounds is absolute maximum the squad could take before removing something. And, that's probably a pretty unlikely situation.
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Smurfy
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 07:50

Yeah, it's separate groups of models for wound allocation tricks, which are still stupid, IMO. Most things that try to Wound Allocate (outside Grotesques) are T4, and thus fail at it when faced against DE's many S8 AP 2 or even just Missile weight of fire.

For using a unit of Grots, I can't help but recommend Lady Malys here, as a option, to alleviate the unit's weakness of matching up vs the likes of Grey Knights squads.
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Valk
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 15:38

I was mistaken, and that part was taken out.

Thank you for clearing that out. Looks like i need to refresh on the rules again. Embarassed

I do occasionally take Aberation if points allow, but not a liquifier gun, it doesn't justify the point when beating people down with S6/S5 attacks.
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Marquis Vaulkhere
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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 22:10

Last night I was playing an Apocalypse game against IG and chaos and out of my WWP came barreling two talos. After eating threw kharn and some berserker's I destroyed a bane-blade with all 3 structure points and after I had gotten two paint tokens of each of them I charged a land raider and took it out with S8 furious charge. It may have been lucky dice but I like the TW heat lance anti tank talos... If you are fighting Ig or Chaos parking-lots lol. On a side note a full squad of 10 Grots with Urien and his upgrade start the game with S7 charge and are great at popping russes.... especially ones containing pask.

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PostSubject: Re: Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide    Haemonculi Army Newbie Guide  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04 2011, 22:33

@Valk wrote:
I was mistaken, and that part was taken out.

Thank you for clearing that out. Looks like i need to refresh on the rules again. Embarassed

I do occasionally take Aberation if points allow, but not a liquifier gun, it doesn't justify the point when beating people down with S6/S5 attacks.

I would pick Liqifier first, since few autohits that have decent chance for AP3 (or better) should do a lot more than additional attack.

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