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mouthfeel
Slave
mouthfeel

Posts : 2
Join date : 2018-07-29

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PostSubject: 1500 pt Black Heart/Cursed Blade Dual Battalion   1500 pt Black Heart/Cursed Blade Dual Battalion I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2018, 00:00

I'm trying to nail down a mid-sized list before I start buying more models.

----
-=Battalion=-
Kabal of the Black Heart

HQ
Archon, Warlord, Labyrinthine Cunning, Writ of the Living Muse, Huskblade

Archon, Huskblade

Troops
3x5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Shredder, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Heavy Support
3 Ravagers w/ Dark Lances

Dedicated Transport
3x Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons
3x Raider w/ Disintegrator Cannon

-=Battalion=-
Cult of the Cursed Blade

Succubus w/ Razorflails
Succubus w/ Archite Glaive and Agonizer

Troops
3x 9 Wyches w/ Shardnet and Impaler

----

Warlord stands with the Ravagers, Wyches and HQs ride in Raiders, Kabs drop with the Venoms via Screaming Jets (assuming the beta rules for deepstriking aren't in effect).

Deploy as many vehicles out of LoS as possible. Turn 1 move my raiders toward an infantry-heavy flank, drop my kabs in rapid-fire range of some infantry.
Command points would be saved for Agents of Vect, rerolls and the occasional Lightning Fast Reflexes on a Venom.

My big questions/concerns:
1. Is there enough anti-tank? I understand blasters are excellent, but if the Ravagers are enough for 1500 points I'd probably keep my warriors dedicated anti-infantry.

2. Should I stick kab squads in raiders if I'm using Screaming Jets often? It would decrease the number of CP used, but it's also fewer targets without the -1 to hit offered by venoms.

3. How much CC support to Archons need? I'm also debating this between a 2 kabal battalion list, but 3 of 4 archons seem like a waste without some melee troops to back them up.

Let me know what you think!
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WhatAHowl
Slave
WhatAHowl

Posts : 23
Join date : 2018-06-13

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PostSubject: Re: 1500 pt Black Heart/Cursed Blade Dual Battalion   1500 pt Black Heart/Cursed Blade Dual Battalion I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2018, 00:54

I reckon you could do with the blasters over the shredders. You have plenty of anti infantry in your splinter weapons and disintegrators.
Ditch the razorflails on the Succubus - she doesn't gain naytbi g apart from the potential extra 2 attacks, while hydra gauntlets always give an extra attack AND rerolls to wound. Give her the Precision Blows warlord trait for extra mortal wound fun.
I'm planning on running two Archons, and maybe a Succubus and two Court members in a Venom as a fun close combat bomb. The Archon is squishy alone, but ifthey have some buddies around, their 2++ save makes them surprisingly tough I reckon.

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I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
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And when you're dead, I will be still alive.


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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: 1500 pt Black Heart/Cursed Blade Dual Battalion   1500 pt Black Heart/Cursed Blade Dual Battalion I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2018, 13:31

@mouthfeel wrote:
My big questions/concerns:
1. Is there enough anti-tank? I understand blasters are excellent, but if the Ravagers are enough for 1500 points I'd probably keep my warriors dedicated anti-infantry.

2. Should I stick kab squads in raiders if I'm using Screaming Jets often? It would decrease the number of CP used, but it's also fewer targets without the -1 to hit offered by venoms.

3. How much CC support to Archons need? I'm also debating this between a 2 kabal battalion list, but 3 of 4 archons seem like a waste without some melee troops to back them up.

Let me know what you think!

1. That's a very subjective question - how many vehicles, MCs, and heavy infantry squads do you get in your local meta? To my mind (and if I was building towards a tourney) I'd take more, and I'd take Dissies over Lances. I'd do this because in my area you would not have enough heavy weaponry, and also because Dissies are more adaptable than Lances and able to serve as both anti-mech and anti-infantry at the same time for less points so are a high value inclusion.

2. I personally don't run my Kabs as either deep strike tools or as focused anti-infantry (I think they do better advancing up the board with Blasters and if I was going deep strike I'd tend to rather drop in a Razorwing or something because for my money Deepstrike is just a place to protect things from Turn 1 shooting rather than a positional advantage tool because I think we're fast enough) So, that excuse in place in case I give bad advice... Wink

I would argue that a Raider being +4 wounds is a durability advantage roughly equal to being -1 to hit. I do not find Venoms or Raiders to be particularly more or less easy to kill than each other when I put both on the table, so I think that's a meaningless fear. I *do* think you have a valid concern of trying to have it done with 'less drops' because that, by definition means 'less things on the table' and therefore your opponent can focus fire better and, yeah, things will die quicker. I also think that if I was spending CP to deep strike Warriors to shoot infantry blobs I'd rather spend CP on a Raider and Dissie w. 2x Shredders in it than a Venom and s.cannons w. 1x Shredder just because it would maximize the value of my drop.

So, *that said* if you think it's worth it to have your infantry killer drop in Turn 2+ to shoot something (as opposed to starting on the board where the s.cannons or Dissie could shoot Turn 1, and the guys inside could shoot probably on Turn 1 and assuredly by Turn 2 anyways...) I would suggest you'd want some bang for your buck, and would suggest taking one Raider with 2x Shredders inside to accomplish this drop for maximum impact. I do think the Raider and Dissie is superior to the Venom in multiple ways, so frankly even if you were keeping them as 5 man squads I'd still tend to advocate putting them in Raiders, but certainly for a stratagem play I'd look to have some impact. I'd also note that taking a squad of 5 Scourges with Shredders might be a better way (and cheaper on CP and points) to accomplish a similar goal.

3. This is another question with no official answer, because it depends what he's assaulting. Is it a 5 man squad of Devastators? Then he's probably fine running solo if you wish. Is it a 20 man blob of Guardsmen or a squad of Assault Terminators with a Character? Then he may have some issues and get squished pretty quick.

Good assault support tools within Kabal builds are Incubi and Mandrakes.

I personally tend to go Cult or Coven for my assault tools, but the Archon is a pretty solid brawler and can be kitted out to be a solid mid tier assault tool for fairly cheap. If you want him to be anything other than an assault deterrent though you should stick him with a squad or run a handful of Archons together) because he is not a valid tool too often as a solo assault piece.

If you don't want to pay for an assault/screening squad then I'd probably just aim to focus on Kabal shooting and just generically plan not to assault with the Archon unless soft targets he can pick on become available as it seems questionable to beef up points on his assault tools without assault support.

Hope that helps!
Thor.

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PostSubject: Re: 1500 pt Black Heart/Cursed Blade Dual Battalion   1500 pt Black Heart/Cursed Blade Dual Battalion I_icon_minitime

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