2k Competitive TAC

Have an upcoming match with a friend who plays Dark Angels, I'm not a grizzled tournament player but I'd like to run the stronger of the two lists below to help him test his mettle for an upcoming event he's attending. They're both TAC lists not designed specifically for Dark Angels, but that's the context.

List 1: Flayed Skull Battalion, PoF Spearhead, Black Heart Air Wing 10CP
-Alliance of Agony (1CP)

This is like...Venomspam-lite with a few utility units like Scourges and Mandrakes, it's fast and versatile and there's good fire support for the trio of Taloi.

Flayed Skull Battalion

Archon w/Djinn Blade, Blast Pistol -Famed Savagery- 86
Archon w/Agoniser & Blast Pistol 84

5x Kabalites w/Blaster & PGL 50
5x Kabalites w/Blaster & PGL 50
5x Kabalites w/Blaster & PGL 50

Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons 75
Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons 75
Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons 75
Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons 75

7x Mandrakes 112

5x Scourges w/4x Shredders 92
5x Scourges w/4x HWB 92

Ravager w/3x Disintegrators 125
Ravager w/3x Disintegrators 125

Prophets of Flesh Spearhead 1CP

Urien Rakarth -Diabolical Soothsayer 90

Talos w/2x HWB, Macro-Scalpel & Chain-flails 98
Talos w/2x HWB, Macro-Scalpel & Chain-flails 98
Talos w/2x HWB, Macro-Scalpel & Chain-flails 98

Black Heart Air Wing 1CP

Razorwing Jetfighter w/2x Dark Lances 145
Razorwing Jetfighter w/2x Dark Lances 145
Voidraven w/Void Lances 155

OR

List 2: Soup + Coven + Air Wing 10CP
-Alliance of Agony (1CP)
-Prizes from the Dark City (1CP)

This list is kind of weird...it is a bit more aggressive, probably will use Screaming Jets to slow roll the Air Wing into play and protect them from turn 1 crashes (they're so hard to hide...), and though it sacrifices AoV it also benefits from a starting CP boost to hopefully cover the set-up CP cost and regenerate some CP along the way to help sink into aggressive stratagems and re-rolls. I figure the shooting isn't really optimized (and less optimized that List 1) so I don't really lose much by not enjoying an Obsession...

Soup Battalion

Archon w/Blaster, Agoniser, Writ of the Living Muse & PGL -Labyrinthine Cunning 94
Succubus w/Blast Pistol & Blood Glaive -Hyperswift Reflexes 60

9x Wyches w/Shardnet & Impaler & Hekatrix w/Agoniser & Blast Pistol 91
5x Kabalites w/Blaster & PGL 50
5x Kabalites w/Blaster & PGL 50

Ravager w/3x Disintegrators 125
Ravager w/3x Disintegrators 125

Raider w/Disintegrator & Shock Prow 81
Raider w/Disintegrator 80

Flayed Skull Air Wing

Razorwing Jetfighter w/2x Dark Lances & Splinter Cannon 155
Razorwing Jetfighter w/2x Dark Lances & Splinter Cannon 155
Voidraven w/2x Void Lances & Missiles 165
Voidraven w/2x Void Lances & Missiles 165

Prophets of Flesh Spearhead

Urien Rakarth -Diabolical Soothsayer

5x Grotesques w/4x Flesh Gauntlets & Liquifier Gun 183

Talos w/2x Heat Lances & 2x Macro-Scalpels 108
Talos w/2x HWB, Macro-Scalpel & Chain-flails 98
Talos w/2x HWB, Macro-Scalpel & Chain-flails 98

List 1 for sure in my mind. Wyches are good, but they really need access to obsessions to make them shine.

@merse24 wrote:

List 1 for sure in my mind.  Wyches are good, but they really need access to obsessions to make them shine.  

I know where you're coming from, but do you feel that's true even for the role they're slated for? They're just going to take +1T Combat Drugs and pin something down with the Shardnet, they don't need Advance+Charge, +1S, or +1A innately to be able to do that.

That's a good point lcfr, but in the games I've played with them, I've found their No Escape rule pretty situational. Granted it could be user error! haha

I typically use wracks for this. I usually run a similar list, but will throw in another Haemy and 3 units of 5 wracks. Sometimes if I have the points I'll run a 10 man unit to get better effectiveness from Black Cornucopians. This will give another 4 CP and serve a similar role, maybe not quite as effective, but I've honestly been very pleased with how much of a pain wracks are for my opponent. They can camp objectives or tie up units in the backfield and cause a lot of havoc on the opponent.

Once I've had an opportunity to convert up some Wracks I'll try that and let you know what I find.

I think I'm tending towards List 1 in any case, a soup detachment just for a killy Succubus and some Wyches that may or may not act as a tarpit doesn't justify giving up Obsession bonuses for my Kabalites and vehicles.

Now I just have to find something to do with the 5pts leftover for it...

PGL on one of your Archons! It gives you access to a solid strategem!

Thoughts on dropping the Haywire Scourges (or the Shredder Scourges I suppose) for 8 Wracks w/2 Ossefactors and Electrocorrosive Whip, and swapping one Venom for a Dissie Raider ?

This nets the Archons some company and gives me some more mileage from Prophets of Flesh.

Here's the list I think I'm going to run with.

2000pts 10CP
~1CP to use Alliance of Agony pre-game
~+D3CP from Urien Rakarth’s Diabolical Soothsayer

Battalion - 5CP - Flayed Skull Fly: +3” Move, Ignore cover, re-roll rapid fire 1s to hit
HQ
Archon w/Blast Pistol & Djinn Blade 86
Warlord: Famed Savagery

Archon w/Blaster, PGL & Agoniser 94

Troops
10 Kabalites w/2 Blasters, Dark Lance, & Sybarite w/Agoniser & PGL 121
5 Kabalites w/Blaster 47
5 Kabalites w/Blaster 47

Elites
7 Mandrakes 112
Lhamaean 15

Fast Attack
5 Scourges w/4 Shredders 92

Heavy Support
Ravager w/3 Disintegrators 125
Ravager w/3 Disintegrators 125

Transports
Venomw/2 Splinter Cannons & Grisly Trophies 77
Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons 75
Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons 75
Raider w/Disintegrator 80

Spearhead - 1CP - Prophets of Flesh +1Inv.
HQ
Urien Rakarth 90
Warlord Trait: Diabolical Soothsayer

Heavy Support
Talos w/2 Haywire Blasters, Macro-Scalpel & Chain-flails 98
Talos w/2 Haywire Blasters, Macro-Scalpel & Chain-flails 98
Talos w/2 Haywire Blasters, Macro-Scalpel & Chain-flails 98

Air Wing - 1CP - Black Heart 6+++ FnP
Razorwing Jetfighter w/2 Dark Lances 145
Razorwing Jetfighter w/2 Dark Lances 145
Voidraven w/2 Dark Scythes 155

I think this has lost some of the redundancy you need to be effective, I'd consider dropping the raider back to a venom and the mandrakes and scourges to fit in another dissie ravager and either more talos or grots. A heavy flyer list like this doesn't need as many deep strikers tbh, they essentially preform that function and can be an excellent screen against some armies without the fly keyword like GSC or Ad Mech, which are often run with heavy assault elements atm relying on first turn charges

Unfortunately there IS no third ravager or additional Taloi, but there ARE 5 Grotesques.

Are deep strikers just way less effective after the beta? Are they not a useful addition to my army because my fliers can effectively get in to those hard to reach places all on their own? I'm not a master tactician, so I'm trying to pick up more of the universal tactics and wisdom that serves as a foundation to strong play.

Ugh, I'm honestly overwhelmed with all the choices. What a fun time to be a Drukhari player.

I've been running 4 Grots + Urien (or normal Haemy) in a raider with great success.

I can't speak much to the Madrakes, I haven't had a chance to try them out yet, but I can certainly see a need for their mortal wounds though. That will come in very handy against armies like Custodes. I'm still on the fence with them honestly. Deepstrike right now is just a bit too much of a risk for me, especially with a unit that only has a 5+ invuln. And for me, they are just a few points on the expensive side to be a potential throw away unit. I would see them having a hard time to earn their value with just a single turn of shooting (assuming that your opponent correctly sees them as a threat and shoots them down after they come in from deep strike).

3 Talos is the minimum in my opinion. I've run 2 several times (that's all I own atm) and they were shot down T1 every game so far. That's good and bad at the same time. It keeps your transports alive longer to get into position and it'll make your opponent make a tough decision between the Taloi, Ravagers and Flyers.

And for the Shredder Scourges, again I haven't tried them, simply because I typically run enough Venoms with Warriors to cover my anti-infantry needs, but that could change when the Ork codex drops. They're great for what you need them for, but again, they have the same problem of keeping them alive after their 1st round of shooting.

Mmm there is one potential problem I see with the "alliance of agony" in that list ... And that is I'm pretty sure you need to choose an Archon (primary warlord), a Succubus, AND a Haemunculus ... Because the word "and" is in that Stratagem I don't think you can use the alliance of agony without having both a Succubus and a Haemunculus. Granted I haven't read the stratagem in a while so I could be misremembering the phrasing. Other than that the list looks solid enough but I do agree you don't need that many deep striking units. Without that many targets on the table it makes it easier for you opponent to Target prioritize and really cripple the army even if half of it is off the table turn 1.

I would prefer the first list for sure.

Also, how are people finding groups of talos? Because I've only got 2 at the moment and I'm thinking about getting another 3-4. Currently I've been running a 9 man blob of grotesques and they absolutely demolish anything in their path (especially with re roll wound strat). Is it worth switching to talos?

@Archon_91 wrote:

Mmm there is one potential problem I see with the "alliance of agony" in that list ... And that is I'm pretty sure you need to choose an Archon (primary warlord), a Succubus, AND a Haemunculus ... Because the word "and" is in that Stratagem I don't think you can use the alliance of agony without having both a Succubus and a Haemunculus.

The strategem actually says "...if your warlordis an Archon. Choose up to 1 Haemy, and up to 1 Succubus".

So taking just 2 is perfectly allowed.

I happily stand corrected