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 A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches

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Tanhausen
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PostSubject: A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches   A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 21 2011, 15:42

Hi there,

Got a competitive tournament on saturday and, what do you know? Crons are rising Razz Not THAT worried about them, but you know... Über GK, BA with FnP...

So I was going over the tools in the list I have sent in (full WWP list... yeah, I'm in for some pain, but gonna fall with a laughter), and decided to go over wytches and CC.

For the record, I carry 2 units exactly the same: 15 with nades, net, gauntlets, hekatrix with agonizer. Whoop, original, huh?

So... here are my numbers:

If assaulted (heaven forbid): 2.27 MEQ

14 wytches deliver 28 x .5(4+) x .33 (5+) x .33 (he saves 3+) = 1.52 dead MEQ
1 hekatrix delivers 3 x .5 x .5 = .75 MEQ

If assaulting : 3.29

14 wytches deliver 42 x .5 x .33 x .33 = 2.29
1 hekatrix 4 x .5 x .5 = 1

If assaulting with FC: 4.47

14 wytches deliver 42 x .5 x .5 x .33 = 3.47
1 hekatrix 4 x .5 x .5 = 1

So... if you go through my numbers and find anything wrong, I'd appreciate you point it out. No, I didn't factor the gauntlets... I'm aware of the fact.

Because right now all I can think is "OMG!!! 220 points killing 75 MEQ points????"

I have other tools in the list (Talos, Cronos, 3 x 6 reaver bikes)... but I have suddenly become very underwhelmed Sad

Thanks for reading and sharing.

Good Hunting!
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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches   A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 21 2011, 15:53

You numbers locks right, wyches are not killer of MEQ, they hold them in place. Allowing you incubi/talos to assault the MEQ without having to worry about that many attacks back.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches   A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 21 2011, 15:59

Few thoughts:

for simplicity sake (as well as "spam good option") I would stick with 1 type of special weapon. Would You pick Scorges with Heat Lance, Splinter Cannon, Haywire Blaster and Heat Lance?

In Wyches units fighting MEQ, most job (point/kill wise) is done by Agoniser. Hekatrix kill 1 while 12 Wyches kill 2~. Same with Ork Boyz, they are "Meat shield for Klaw". Cut number down. Unless You expect huge units with crappy save.

You fight in both Your and opponent turn. Many people forget about that and this is (kinda) important, especially with FC.

Basically my advice would be "dump useless crap".

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Tanhausen
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PostSubject: Re: A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches   A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 21 2011, 16:38

Thanks for the comments.

@Talos, I agree: they are superb at tarpitting anything that isn't a Furioso.

@Local_Ork: I understand what you say.

However (there's always one Razz), the unit config is thought for a WWP list. EVERYTHING goes by foot (except for the WWP deliver systems).

Ang having to play aggressive... I can't afford playing 10 wytches, assaulting, winning (in my turn or his) and then down to say... its WAY too risky.

You know... I found out the hard way Razz So I swapped 3x10 to 2x15.

Also, these gals are my speed bumps. I can throw them vs basically anything and I know that I'll probably hold my ground a couple turns.

Anyhow, thanks for reading.

Its good to know that I shouldn't expect more than 1-2 dead marines if assaulted, 3-4 marines if I assault.

Good hunting!
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Phototoxin
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PostSubject: Re: A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches   A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 21 2011, 19:25

My article from dakka:

= Wych Weapons : The Stats =

== Background ==
The Dark Eldar codex allows for wyches to be equipped with a variety of exotic weaponry at the bargain of 10pts per weapon although they are available in limited numbers to Wyches and slightly more can be fielded in a similar sized unit of elite Bloodbrides.

The Shardnet and Impaler is essentially a net and trident but can take several forms (such as the hooks in Lelith Hesperax's Hydra Gauntlets (formerly Hydra Knives) are punching gloves covered in a variety of blades and spikes. Old hydraknives were double bladed hand weapons.
Razorflails (formerly Razorsnare) are essentially blades on chains allowing for better reach and accuracy as well as the ability to easily hit critical points on an opponent.

==Stats==
The weapons' confer the following bonuses:

<b>Shardnet and Impaler</b> - counts as 2 ccws; Enemy models in BTB contact loose 1 attack

<b>Hydragauntlets</b> (formerly Hydra Knives) - counts as 2 ccws but gain +d6 attacks, rather than the normal +1

<b>Razorflails</b> (formerly Razorsnare) - counts as 2 ccw; re-roll failed to hit and to wound rolls

While the Shardnet and Impaler fulfil an entirely different, defensive role, both the gauntlets and flails seek to assist damage output. However to assess the viability and determine which is optimal for your army selection some numbers need to be crunched.

The results are shown below, there are no results for WS9-10 as these are not encountered that often. Additionally 'WS3' results obviously apply to WS1-3 due to the way to hit rolls are calculated.

A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches 158CE78D39CB460A98F800C804B1DDC7-0000314369-0001984899-00800L-160406EC5EE14F6B97F205BEB6A623DB

For ease the MEQ statline (WS4, T4) is <font style='Color: blue'>highlighted</font> below although only 1/3 of these again will actually kill a Space Marine due to his 3+ save.

A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches 23C86024AF194A54B608228422C4E643-0000314369-0001984898-00678L-39B8CA340CAA415584C34FF9918AC49C

==Conclusion==
As you can see unless you roll 5-6 attacks the flails are slightly better although the weaker the opponent the less of a factor the razorflails become and more attacks are important. However the <i>painbringer</i> combat drug makes the re-rolling to wound effect of the razorflails redundant.


===== Data =====
Finally the raw data from my spreadsheet is below as I do not know how to create a proper wiki table.

Weapon Normal flail Gauntlets+1 2
Attacks 2 2 2 3 4 5 6 7

Hits vs WS3 1.333333333 1.777777778 1.333333333 2 2.666666667 3.333333333 4 4.666666667
Hits vs WS4+ 1 1.5 1 1.5 2 2.5 3 3.5

T3 @ WS3 0.666666667 1.333333333 0.666666667 1 1.333333333 1.666666667 2 2.333333333
T3 @ WS4+ 0.5 1.125 0.5 0.75 1 1.25 1.5 1.75
T4 @ WS3 0.444444444 0.987654321 0.444444444 0.666666667 0.888888889 1.111111111 1.333333333 1.555555556
T4 @ WS4+ 0.333333333 0.833333333 0.333333333 0.5 0.666666667 0.833333333 1 1.166666667
T5 @ WS3 0.222222222 0.543209877 0.222222222 0.333333333 0.444444444 0.555555556 0.666666667 0.777777778
T5 @ WS4+ 0.166666667 0.458333333 0.166666667 0.25 0.333333333 0.416666667 0.5 0.583333333
A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches 158CE78D39CB460A98F800C804B1DDC7-0000314369-0001984899-00800L-160406EC5EE14F6B97F205BEB6A623DBA bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches 158CE78D39CB460A98F800C804B1DDC7-0000314369-0001984899-00800L-160406EC5EE14F6B97F205BEB6A623DB
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Tanhausen
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PostSubject: Re: A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches   A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 22 2011, 08:23

@Phototoxin

Thanks for the data.

But man... its hard to read Sad Probably was tabbed into columns or something...
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Phototoxin
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PostSubject: Re: A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches   A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 22 2011, 08:30

I put up pictures with the excel page on it.
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Tanhausen
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PostSubject: Re: A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches   A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 22 2011, 09:22

Er... at work... my bad then Smile

Usually can't see pics here.
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PostSubject: Re: A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches   A bit of number crunching (Mathhammering) - Wytches I_icon_minitime

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