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Pain Engine
Hellion
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Join date : 2017-09-30
Location : Stockholm

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:38

@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
So how are our HQ's slower? You have to compare Apples with Apples in my opinion.

No, we do not have to compare our footsloggers to their footsloggers. What was stated was that our HQs are slower than marine HQs because we don't have movement options, which marines do.
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amishprn86
Archon
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:40

@Pain Engine wrote:
@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
So how are our HQ's slower? You have to compare Apples with Apples in my opinion.

No, we do not have to compare our footsloggers to their footsloggers. What was stated was that our HQs are slower than marine HQs because we don't have movement options, which they do.

We get vehicles like crazy, yes SM can get a vehicle but they are paying more points for less viable option, so Bikes/Jump jacks are always picked, and they are 12" movement.

But even without a vehicle we can get +2" on a Succubus and even more so some other ways, a 10"-12" movement character honestly isnt that bad.

We are all Base 8 (other than Coven HQ are Base 7)

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the_scotsman
Hellion
the_scotsman

Posts : 95
Join date : 2016-01-30

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:41

I'm looking at different lists right now.

One of them features 20 warriors who deep strike in, unload 4 blasters, 2 splinter cannons and 14 splinter rifles with reroll 1s to hit and to wound, then Fire and Fade 7".

The other one has 20 16" move hellions, 12 18" move Reavers (who have the option of moving up to 33" if they feel like it or want to pull a 12-dice flyover plus 4 blasters to the face of some unfortunate character), 3 19" move Venoms, 2 17" move Raiders, and a flyer with a Move stat that just says "Yes".

Yeah guys we're slow as balls, I'm burning my models.
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TheBaconPope
Wych
TheBaconPope

Posts : 710
Join date : 2017-03-10

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:42

I'm a bit disappointed. I'll read the codex, but I probably won't buy it.

I come from here to get away from the cess pool of toxicity that is Dakka. People not liking the thing you like isn't an attack on your character, values, or existence. Stop treating it as such.

I'm sorry to see some of our more active members leaving, especially those that argued the other side of the coin from popular opinion.

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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:43

Lol both of those ideas sounds like a lot of fun. Reavers/raiders/venoms with flayed skull is likely going to become my new standard list, nothing will be moving slower than 17" until my vehicles start going down.

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Crazy_Ivan
Wych
Crazy_Ivan

Posts : 515
Join date : 2012-04-10
Location : Wellingborough

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:44

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Pain Engine wrote:
@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
So how are our HQ's slower? You have to compare Apples with Apples in my opinion.

No, we do not have to compare our footsloggers to their footsloggers. What was stated was that our HQs are slower than marine HQs because we don't have movement options, which they do.

We get vehicles like crazy, yes SM can get a vehicle but they are paying more points for less viable option, so Bikes/Jump jacks are always picked, and they are 12" movement.

But even without a vehicle we can get +2" on a Succubus and even more so some other ways, a 10"-12" movement character honestly isnt that bad.

We are all Base 8 (other than Coven HQ are Base 7)

Exactly and it would be really boring if all armies could have the same stuff. Also, in the fluff I don't think I've read about an archon getting on a jetbike, skyboard, or having wings grafted onto him. They have minions to do that for them.
I'm honestly not bothered about them having that option.
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

Posts : 4256
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:45

@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Pain Engine wrote:
@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
So how are our HQ's slower? You have to compare Apples with Apples in my opinion.

No, we do not have to compare our footsloggers to their footsloggers. What was stated was that our HQs are slower than marine HQs because we don't have movement options, which they do.

We get vehicles like crazy, yes SM can get a vehicle but they are paying more points for less viable option, so Bikes/Jump jacks are always picked, and they are 12" movement.

But even without a vehicle we can get +2" on a Succubus and even more so some other ways, a 10"-12" movement character honestly isnt that bad.

We are all Base 8 (other than Coven HQ are Base 7)

Exactly and it would be really boring if all armies could have the same stuff. Also, in the fluff I don't think I've read about an archon getting on a jetbike, skyboard, or having wings grafted onto him. They have minions to do that for them.
I'm honestly not bothered about them having that option.

There are Archons on Jet bikes, Skyboards and even wings. The Archon that made the Tantalus is actually a Reaver.

Vraesque Malidrach of the Flawed Skulls also was a Reaver

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Crazy_Ivan
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:47

I'd rather see an archon specific chariot with two void lances. One can dream.
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Crazy_Ivan
Wych
Crazy_Ivan

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:47

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Pain Engine wrote:
@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
So how are our HQ's slower? You have to compare Apples with Apples in my opinion.

No, we do not have to compare our footsloggers to their footsloggers. What was stated was that our HQs are slower than marine HQs because we don't have movement options, which they do.

We get vehicles like crazy, yes SM can get a vehicle but they are paying more points for less viable option, so Bikes/Jump jacks are always picked, and they are 12" movement.

But even without a vehicle we can get +2" on a Succubus and even more so some other ways, a 10"-12" movement character honestly isnt that bad.

We are all Base 8 (other than Coven HQ are Base 7)

Exactly and it would be really boring if all armies could have the same stuff. Also, in the fluff I don't think I've read about an archon getting on a jetbike, skyboard, or having wings grafted onto him. They have minions to do that for them.
I'm honestly not bothered about them having that option.

There are Archons on Jet bikes, Skyboards and even wings. The Archon that made the Tantalus is actually a Reaver.

Vraesque Malidrach of the Flawed Skulls also was a Reaver

I stand corrected Very Happy
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CptMetal
Trueborn
CptMetal

Posts : 2954
Join date : 2015-03-03
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:52

With the shard net witches are great in binding enemies. But since I only own a few witches, I guess I'd use them in a patrol. 5 witches and the Succubus in a raider. How do you get her to 9 attacks?

I'd like to give her the trait that she explodes when she dies so she becomes a character hunter as well.

@ Pain Engine
I'm not complaining about the theme. I get it. I'd prefer the option for a bike at least for the Succubus too. It's rather the spam nature of always hearing the same complaint. And when they are "threatening" to stop playing and leaving us it's like a kid threatening that it'll never sleep again. They won't do it. They rather linger here and spam the topics with the same complaint over and over.

I was playing dark Eldar since the re boot in fifth and I have to say that we are faster. At least we feel faster.
When I wanted to shoot from my transports I was limited to 6 inches. That's minimal movement. I only could move faster when I actively forgone shooting for a turn. In a 5 to 7 turn game that can be devastating. Now my dudes can move maximum speed +3 and still shoot from their transports that also can shoot without any penalty due to assault lances.
And we got the best deep strike stratagem in the game right now.
I get it, it's subjective but I'm not going to complain about this but rather try to come up with ideas to crush our enemies.
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Dizzie
Kabalite Warrior
Dizzie

Posts : 104
Join date : 2012-11-10

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:54

@TheBaconPope wrote:

I come from here to get away from the cess pool of toxicity that is Dakka. People not liking the thing you like isn't an attack on your character, values, or existence. Stop treating it as such.

I'm sorry to see some of our more active members leaving, especially those that argued the other side of the coin from popular opinion.

Absolutely right, people are allowed to have their opinions, as a long time lurker i'm sorry to see this happen, I appreciate what they had to share over the years, I may not have agreed with a lot of it, but its nice to see the other side of the coin and not be blinded by new codex syndrome, they had some valid points but i'm staying positive until i see the codex.
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Bad-baden-baden
Kabalite Warrior
Bad-baden-baden

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Location : Montreal

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:55

@CptMetal wrote:
With the shard net witches are great in binding enemies. But since I only own a few witches, I guess I'd use them in a patrol. 5 witches and the Succubus in a raider. How do you get her to 9 attacks?

I'd like to give her the trait that she explodes when she dies so she becomes a character hunter as well.

@ Pain Engine
I'm not complaining about the theme. I get it. I'd prefer the option for a bike at least for the Succubus too. It's rather the spam nature of always hearing the same complaint. And when they are "threatening" to stop playing and leaving us it's like a kid threatening that it'll never sleep again. They won't do it. They rather linger here and spam the topics with the same complaint over and over.

I was playing dark Eldar since the re boot in fifth and I have to say that we are faster. At least we feel faster.
When I wanted to shoot from my transports I was limited to 6 inches. That's minimal movement. I only could move faster when I actively forgone shooting for a turn. In a 5 to 7 turn game that can be devastating. Now my dudes can move maximum speed +3 and still shoot from their transports that also can shoot without any penalty due to assault lances.
And we got the best deep strike stratagem in the game right now.
I get it, it's subjective but I'm not going to complain about this but rather try to come up with ideas to crush our enemies.

Succubus: 4 base
+1 CoS
+1 Combat Drug
+3 Agonizer relic

Take warlord trait where 6's are 3 hits. Profit.
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Quauchtemoc
Sybarite
Quauchtemoc

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:55

I'm sorry but the guy who cry in this topic have just no idea of how was the DE in 3rd.

Just to remind you: -Cabalyte cost 10 and had a lase gun , no pfp
                            -Whyches less threatening thats the INDEX version !!
                            - Raider that can be killed by a bolter shot and where as fast as other fast vehicule

I mean yes i'm disapointed that moving our cac HQ will be a problem but if you think 3rd edition DE where a real Glass Hammer you are wrong

Edit: And anyway i think a glasse hammer army in a game you cant schoose to have first turn and where a lot of army have good shoot option is not something possible


Last edited by Quauchtemoc on Sat Mar 31 2018, 15:59; edited 1 time in total
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Pain Engine
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 15:56

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
I'm sorry but the guy who cry in this topic have just no idea of how was the DE in 3rd.

Just to remind you: -Cabalyte cost 10 and had a lase gun , no pfp
                            -Whyches less threatening thats the INDEX version !!
                            - Raider that can be killed by a bolter shot and where as fast as other fast vehicule

I mean yes i'm disapointed that moving our cac HQ will be a problem but if you think 3rd edition DE where a real Glass Hammer you arre wrong

what
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:02

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
I'm sorry but the guy who cry in this topic have just no idea of how was the DE in 3rd.

Just to remind you: -Cabalyte cost 10 and had a lase gun , no pfp
                            -Whyches less threatening thats the INDEX version !!
                            - Raider that can be killed by a bolter shot and where as fast as other fast vehicule

I mean yes i'm disapointed that moving our cac HQ will be a problem but if you think 3rd edition DE where a real Glass Hammer you are wrong

Edit: And anyway i think a glasse hammer army in a game you cant schoose to have first turn and where a lot of army have good shoot option is not something possible

I started in 5th with the release of all the new models (tho i do have 3 raiders and 40 warriors of 3rd b.c people were getting rid of them at the time).

So i had no idea how DE played in 3rd.

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Quauchtemoc
Sybarite
Quauchtemoc

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:03

I was not taling about you actually
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:04

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
I was not taling about you actually


no no no i know, was just talking and it was nice to see it from a player that was there.

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Quauchtemoc
Sybarite
Quauchtemoc

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:06

Well to be honest other army unit were also weaker in 3rd edition but still, i never had the feeling to have hammer unit exept for our HQ and incubi
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Dark Elf Dave
Wych
Dark Elf Dave

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:13

I played DE eldar in third. Back then the new models excited me...wow they have aged badly. I remember how much I tried to actually place my warriors on their Raiders! CC seemed complicated for Wyches. Had to kind of do attacks two at a time for each different weapon profile...same now I suppose but I remember we had a few more Wych weapons in a 10 man squad

It wasn't even close to being as cool as it is now.

It seems odd for someone to say GW have come in and taken over DE and turned them into Drukhari...I thought they made them all??? If someone can let the lack of HQ speed/mobility detract from what is an amazingly fun codex for us, then having such a closed mind will surely bring constant disappointments.

Also we all knew GW were not releasing rules for anything that didn't have models. They may have back tracked on this once or twice, but that's been their plans and they have been open about that.
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krayd
Wych
krayd

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:14

Yeah, in 3rd edition, lots of stuff sucked, but dark lances were 10 pts, and you could take 2 in a 10 man footslogging unit (10 man 2 DL "sniper" units were common).

Also, after the 2001 update in 3rd ed, wyches were *great*. That's when they got their 4+ invul in cc. They also could negate opponents' additional attacks from having more than one ccw, and they halved opponent WS when swinging at the wyches.

Dissies could fire S7 AP2 blast templates. I once cleared out an entire unit of grey knight termies with 1 round of firing from a dissie ravager.
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Quauchtemoc
Sybarite
Quauchtemoc

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:16

Yeah wyches were ... tanky . Not an hammer at all.
And i'm agree for dark lance and dissis but we didnt need any speed to make a good use of them.
And if i remenber correctly dark lance spam was the only competitve way to go DE , which was kinda boring
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Pain Engine
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:18

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I remember how much I tried to actually place my warriors on their Raiders!

Fun fact: You can actually fit 5 wracks on a venom by using their spines. You can even balance 4 wracks on the last.

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
It seems odd for someone to say GW have come in and taken over DE and turned them into Drukhari...I thought they made them all???

I didn't mean that GW took them over, since as you say, they always belonged to GW. I meant that they have become a generic 40k army.
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Faitherun
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Faitherun

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:23

@Pain Engine wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
I'm sorry but the guy who cry in this topic have just no idea of how was the DE in 3rd.

Just to remind you: -Cabalyte cost 10 and had a lase gun , no pfp
                            -Whyches less threatening thats the INDEX version !!
                            - Raider that can be killed by a bolter shot and where as fast as other fast vehicule

I mean yes i'm disapointed that moving our cac HQ will be a problem but if you think 3rd edition DE where a real Glass Hammer you arre wrong

what

3rd ed DE splinter weapons were Str 3 ap 5. Rifles were rapid fire (Couldn't shoot and assault).

Warriors were just as Fragile as they are now, but Power from pain did not exist.

Wyches were 12 pts per model. Ws 4, (which meant vs Space marines and their ilk they typically hit on 4s), had 1 attack base (cc+pistol gave +1 attack), their drugs were 100% random and wych weapons only decreased the damage potential of enemy units vs them. I do miss a lot of their wargear. Hell mask (can only hit the bearer on 6's on failed LD test), Webway Portals (portable deployment zones!), Mask of the Damned (take a LD test if you want to assault a unit with this, fail and can't assault), and Combat drug dispensers (let you pick drugs for characters).

All that being said, what I have seen thus far, we are in a much better position. Including special characters (5 pages worth) we had 16 pages of units, wargear, and options.
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Dizzie
Kabalite Warrior
Dizzie

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:26

I remember DE in 3rd, they were good back before the had their first codex in the BRB. once the codex hit they were completely unusable, GW tried to fix this by always letting us have first turn.
then the revamp came with some decent improvements, the first introduction of jink which came on hellions i was hoping we got it back again in new codex but nope its gone for good.

To answer how they were, they basically sucked until 5th and what it boiled down to was how much damage you could do on that first turn with dark light and what ever else you had to even the field with how much they sucked, so many sniper squads with 2 DL's in 10man kabalite squads, then 3 ravagers with disintegrator cannons which had 2 modes, blast and the mode we know now. basically the army was complete spam with warriors on lances, disintegrators on ravagers and raiders, archons with incubi bodyguard.
Archons on jetbikes were kinda cool though.
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Quauchtemoc
Sybarite
Quauchtemoc

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   TTT DE video - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 31 2018, 16:26

Yeah the wargear was really fun in 3rd that true, but we get a part back with this codex so i'm half happy about that
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