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 assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids

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gunnerboy1607
Kabalite Warrior
gunnerboy1607

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PostSubject: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13 2011, 11:23

sooo archons! i need help!!!!

i really need tips against those 5 armies!! using DE...cause im pretty new to DE, i jsut want some glory with a new army that i own Smile LIKE TACTICS FTW!

eldar - so how am i gonna defeat these guys if they use a lot of vypers and prob a falcon and is planning to use the seer council?? and hes telling me that the seer council is invulnerable! is that for real?? (i know he wont use wraithlords...he knows to much about our poison shots Razz)

wolves - havent versed them at all....are they jsut like vanilla marines? whats diff about them and what do i have to watch out for?

GK - i am dreading this army. i heard theyve been cheesed out. :/ and im really scared of draigo and the paladins or something like that :/ im sure some of u guys have faced them. tips please!

crons - well theyre new. sooooo yeah Razz

nids - well i know lots of shots will kill it. but what is the best unit to tie what with???

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theblackjackal
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13 2011, 18:34

For Eldar, I'd suggest looking at the stickied thread "Hashmal Takes On The Universe;" this guy knows his stuff. Ignore the Necrons stuff he posted; he hasn't updated in a while.

With Space Wolves, you really only need to worry about Thunderwolf Cavalry and Long Fangs, but they're much more aggressive than vanilla marines (almost as much as Blood Angels) and tend to be slightly better in close combat (counter-attack helps).

I've only played against Grey Knights as Imperial Guard, and I wasn't particularly impressed. That might have been because my opponent made a few major mistakes (like deep striking a Storm Raven right in front of my firebase and disgorging a squad of Paladins, and then forgetting that you can't assault from a deep striking vehicle the turn it comes in. 28 autocannon rounds, 8 krak grenades and 120 lasgun shots later, not a single Paladin was left standing and the Raven was a flaming wreck). From reading the codex, I would say that one of the most troublesome things that Grey Knights can do is take a bunch of Psyfledreads, make half of them scoring units and set them up so that they can usually get a bead on you. Combine that with Fortitude and now they're shooting every turn, regardless of how many times you shake or stun them.

From what I've read, Necrons really shouldn't be all that troublesome. What you want to do in order to deny them reanimation protocols is to completely wipe the unit in question out. Leave no survivors. The best way to do that is to beat face in close combat, which is their weak point due to low initiative. They have a few scary units, but nothing that can't be dealt with using Wyches and/or darklight spam.

As for Tyranids: Really? You're having trouble with the codex most vulnerable to our entire arsenal? OK, quick rundown of how to kill the bugs: shoot the big monsters to death first. They're quite vulnerable to both darklights and poison, both of which you should have in abundance. Assault the little gribblies after softening them up with more splinter fire; your assault units probably don't want to get close to his monsters, so you wipe out his gribblies with your assault units, which probably won't be doing much shooting anyway. Remember that fearless units that lose combat take additional wounds; this is not a good thing for Hormagaunts or Termagants, especially since they have such a terrible armor save and practically no access to feel no pain. Additionally, be sure to take down his Tervigons, if he has any. They poop out broods of Termagants in his movement phase.

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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13 2011, 22:58

Since you are new to dark elder, I will give you some basic advices that will apply to all of those opponents.

First, we have T3 and next to no amour, and we lack numbers. If your troops and transports get shoot, they are dead. The trick to survive is movement, how you move and way. The best way not to get shoot is to be out of sight, or out of range. (Night shields can really help you to avoid those meltas ) And cover your raiders, use terrain and raiders to cover them. A flat out move gives a 4+ cover, that is nice.

This brings us to the deployment of your army. As a dark elder player this is really important, because a bad deployment will lose you the game. I prefer to go second, knowing where the enemies’ troops are, really helps, and I get the last turn.

Dark elder troops really like there transports. And for god reasons to, they get us in to assault range, they give cover to other transports. With the right gear they can ram and tankshock, and they are great for contesting objectives in the later stages of the game.

And then you assault you enemies fight them unfair, let two or more of your units assault one of the enemies. The trick is to cripple the enemies almost to death in the first round. Because you want as few attacks back as possible, but you also wants a second round of combat. Way? If your units are looked in an assault in the enemies shooting phase, they can’t shoot you, if your units gets shoot, they are dead remember? So most of our troops are safer in close combat with the enemy. Wyches are a shining example of what I mean.

In short, use your speed and the terrain to your advantage, plan, and don’t fight fair.
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gunnerboy1607
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14 2011, 07:34

@blackjackal
1.) ill go take a look at that now!!

2.) well thats the thing :/...i know this guy runs a full fluffed army! like full of thunderwolf, wolves and canis wolfborn...and i think a squad of longfangs and 1 or 2 grey hunters with pods...soooo yeah. jsut a question, what should i "hit" each thing with??

3.) AND THAT IS WHY I LOVE MY GUARDS AS WELL!!! REMIND ME OF THE GAMES I VERSE DAEMONS!!! Very Happy GOOD JOB!!! MAKING ME PROUD USING THOSE GUARDS WELL!!! but back to the point...wait, whats a psyfledread and what do they do and that fortitude thing? and should i be worried about draigo if he gets fielded??

4.) yeah cool! thats what everyone keeps telling me. its just IMO, it feels like theyre stealing the thunder of fast vehicles from DE...and thats what im scared of, it they move up fast enough to shoot stuff down!!

5.) sweeeet!!! but whats a good tie in unit that can kill genestealers???

@talos - THANK YOU FOR THAT MASSIVE TIP!!! ill keep all of those stuff in mind! Smile i think i understand why people call DE a "glass hammer" or "flying cardboard" army now... Razz

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14 2011, 16:01

Pretty much this is all you need to know:

1) Eldar are almost as mobile as us, and have the toughest tanks in the game (now that the Mono loses all its resistances) The cons though are they are expensive and are dealing with an older style codex. Yes the seer council is very surivivable (they have a 4++ and can be re-rolled if fortuned), but it has its weaknesses (like no power weapons unless sporting an Autarch or Eldrad) anything that brings the pain and puts on the wounds can grind them down. Heck wyches are just as survivable if they have FNP, and deal a ton more wounds.

2) Wolves are by far the top codex out there. They have amazing shooting in the form of longfangs, great assault in the form of thunderwolves, and have point for point the second best troop you can get (grey hunters ftw) and have tricks up their sleeves galore. Their weakness is their low leadership without an IC or Wolf Guard, so beating them in combat and you are sure to run those puppies down. Remember though these Wolves have teeth, and dont let them charge you.

*Mods please merge my two posts, for some reason this page is having an error and I cant see my last post to edit it* No problem Wink

3) GKs can be full of cheese, but luckily the prefered way of playing them is Dragiowing, which for us is a piece of cake. Sure thye are 2 wound termies, but we have S8 AP2 weapons in a premium. Their worst thing against us is their psyflemen. Kill them at all costs...

4) Bugs are a joke against us. Just down them with splinter and dark matter and call it a day.
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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14 2011, 22:41

@gunnerboy1607 wrote:
@blackjackal
@talos - THANK YOU FOR THAT MASSIVE TIP!!!

You’re welcome. And one more thing, not far from this little thread, lives another one, called Dark elder tactica, I suggest you read what is written there, a very well written breakdown on all our units and wargear. Happy reading.
http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t9-dark-eldar-tactica
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gunnerboy1607
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 15 2011, 12:27

@shadows revenge - wow thanks for all that information!!! that was such a confidence booster Smile ummm this is gonna make me sound dumb...but what are psyflemen??? also with that seer council??...if i just make them take lots of saves, would that be a good tactic??

@talos - thanks again man!! Smile that tactica is really good! i remember looking at that like a week ago though! but thanks for reminding me! never finished it Razz

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 15 2011, 15:17

Ok, let me explain. A riflemen dread is the name coined for a dreadnaught with two autocannons. Probably the best thing at taking out our transport short of lootas or a hydra. Blue Book marines can field them (I also think Space Wolves can as well, but you see less of them) A Psyflemen is a Grey Knight Riflemen Dread with the psy ammo upgrade, making it S8 instead of S7. While this isnt really the problem (although it hurts) All GK tanks have the ability to remove the shaken and stunned results from their tanks on a psychic tests. That is the problem with GKs, as we surivive by stunlocking tanks and therefore recieving less return fire. GKs are probably the worse codex for us to face, but again like I said most people play Dragiowing because its so good against every other army, except ours...

And yes, the best way to take out a seer council is to either A) shoot them to death or B) charge them and drown them in wounds. Remember they are only good if they charge, and they can only do real damage if they have an Autarch with them. So if you charge with say... wyches, or wracks if they lack an Autarch, you can easily blow them out (or at least tie them up for the rest of the game)

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gunnerboy1607
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 16 2011, 13:32

Sweet thanks for telling me! Cause iv always seen the term psyfelemen in other threads...and I'm like, urgh what's that!!! But thanks for clearing that up Smile

Sweet!!! Then, 9 wyches with a hekatrix with an aggy!!! Here we come...and maybe if we're lucky there will be a succubus or archon would follow with them Razz

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 18 2011, 17:04

1) Eldar- as an eldar player myself they really suffer in the same ways as us, templates and low armour values. I would suggest a Ravager with 3 DL if you are up against Vypers and Falcons. Also the Sear council has good wound allocation but at least 1 flaw- no range. If you can shoot enough of the Warlocks off then drop a squad of wyches in they should be little problem.
I would also advise to keep everything in transports if you can and shoot from longer range, most eldar troops can only push 18" max range but plenty of shots (most shurikan weapons are assault 2), so just make sure you keep out of theyr'e range and remain in vehicles for as long as possible.
CC is probably one of the best ways to deal with Eldar due to DE attacks and initiatives

2) For Wolves and GK, take away whatever mobility they have then fire plenty of Dissies into terminator/paladin squads. If they have to footslog and you still have transport you should be fine. Also be careful in assault. Wyches/bloodbrides will be your best option but only if they have +1 strength or you can get them furious charge from farming weaker units. If not, Incubi with Onslaught might be better but will not often survive for long if they get hit back by power weapons.

3) For nids,Just shoot lots. (from vehicles)

4) Necrons, since the new Codex I have no idea, from the sounds of it take away their st 10 big blast doomsday thing... that thing sounds brutal

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POwell0
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 18 2011, 17:48

I may have already said this in your Army List thread but i play GK's a lot and to be honest they arent as challenging as people always make out, If you know how to play against them.

Firstly get FULLY stocked on Nightshields, GK players (or at least the ones i know) REALLY hate them. Yes they can mount the equivalent of Psycannons on Razorbacks and Autocannons on Dreads but at 18" range from the Nightshields you can stay pretty much unharmed if you play it correct.
Secondly Wyches can mince a small strike squad quite easily, we have 4++ they don't, hence why the Agoniser is the weapon of choice for anyone who can wield one.
And thirdly dont be intimidated by them, thats half the battle lost. Lots of GK players bank on opponents being scared of them and making mistakes. Just do what the DE do best Shoot them up first, whilst lining up assaults then let the CC commence.


Also i would personally take the 2nd turn. Seeing where he deploys and then counter deploying to either avoid or react to whatever is on the board gives you a big advantage. Plus those Nightshields will pay for themselves when he finds out he cant shoot you LOL.
And Draigo....oh yes. SHOOT the paladins he will no doubt be with them send in your Archon and some Wyches, he dies just as easily as everything else when you put a lot of wounds on him
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thecactusman17
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 04:45

@gunnerboy1607 wrote:
@shadows revenge - wow thanks for all that information!!! that was such a confidence booster Smile ummm this is gonna make me sound dumb...but what are psyflemen??? also with that seer council??...if i just make them take lots of saves, would that be a good tactic??

It's worth noting here for any player: Psyfleman dreadnoughts are currently the best AT platform in the game, putting out more wounds/penetrates than a Long Fang squad for equivalent points and getting a save roughly equal to 3+, and that's before we talk about the damage-ignoring Venerable variants. Players can field as many as 6 of these things between their Heavy and Elite selections, it's disgusting in the extreme especially for those of us reliant on massed light armor for mobility. A GK Venerable Dread takes, on average, over 30 penetrating hits to destroy in the open. Read that again. You could be dealing with up to 3 of these on the table at a time in addition to non-venerable options.


Grey Knights are actually kind of a pushover list without these, though. Too few models, only two other really killer unit selections (Paladins and Deathcult Assassins) and surprisingly low-powered in assault.

Eldar come in two flavors: Mechanized transports, and gunline. Both can be hell on Dark Eldar thanks to the sheer resiliency they possess vs. our best weapons AND the ridiculous amount of S6 shooting they can put out. At 1850, it is possible to pack every single troop slot into a fast AV12 tank with 6 S6 shots on the move, then pack every elite slot with fire Dragons in same, AND a Farseer with Guide or fortune as desired. Don't forget, those transports are nearly immune to melta and S9+ shooting. In both cases, we need to be thoughtful about how we deal with them, which is to say that we need to kill almost everything in the assault phase. Slowly. Count every destroyed tank in the shooting phase as a blessing, there won't be many of them.

Necrons (new) possess some new strengths and some exploitable weaknesses. We have the second best response to night fighting after Tau, and we also can do serious damage in assault. They, on the other hand, no longer give a crap with their new WBB variant that has only one downside compared to the previous version, which is that they no longer get back up after losing an assault and being ran down. Kill these guys, as many as possible, in Close Combat. If you are taking Duke Sliscus, always gun for those ultra-useful strength and reroll (I'd suggest reroll) combat drugs for your Wych variants so that you are maximizing wounds in CC. Beware the new Scarabs and Wraiths, they have ridiculously powerful new abilities that make killing Dark Eldar vehicles in assault incredibly easy.

Tyranids are an easy one with a few nasty tricks. The first is the freaking Hive Guard. Personally, I recommend exterminatus by poisoned CC wherever possible, especially if you are using Agonizers. Agonizers can and will radically change the game in your favor if used carefully. Remember, even before combat drugs a charging unit of Wyches should always be doing at least two wounds in CC. In CC, it is very easy to trap large monsters in CC with your wyches and their 4+ invul save, then multi-assault the MCs and a few ridiculous small units. I've won a combat with 6 units comprised nearly a dozen multi-wound close combat monsters, forcing every unit to take 17 no retreat wounds after wiping a huge unit of Gaunts. Poisoned shooting also has obvious benefits, but don't forget that you are going to put a lot of firepower into each monster if you go this route--seriously consider whether committing every splinter weapon to killing a trygon is worth it when you have a pack of Genestealers closing in. Good Tyranid strategy is a solid combined arms rush that brings nearly every major unit in to a single point and cleansing that point of opposing forces, and Dark eldar can use this to our advantage, by carefully prioritizing which units will be engaged in the shooting and close combat phase, and determining what they will face with our superior mobility.
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gunnerboy1607
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 09:35

@grub - ok so heres the problem, the seer council my friend is running, runs on jetbike. so that extra toughness is making it a bit tricky, and also i cant just go up and rapid fire as he runs the warlocks with that flaming template spell. so yeah, if u have tips to take them out. feel free to share Smile

yeah it does! im scared more with those scarabs! sneaking in to take the ravagers out! :O

@p0well0 - hello again Razz and yes! alright ill keep that in mind, but arent psyflemen with autocannon?? how does that work that 18" away would help?

@cactusman17 - wow all i can say is thank you! for all that writing Razz
but ehhhh, everyone has made these psyfle-things sound like they are very dangerous and arggghhhh!!
yeah im just lucky the guy that i play against that has the eldar, doesnt have lots of vehicle, but round 2 vypers and 1 falcon i think.

necrons, yeah that was my plan. jsut get there as fast as possible! Very Happy

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 11:35

@gunnerboy1607 wrote:
@grub - ok so heres the problem, the seer council my friend is running, runs on jetbike. so that extra toughness is making it a bit tricky, and also i cant just go up and rapid fire as he runs the warlocks with that flaming template spell. so yeah, if u have tips to take them out. feel free to share :

So the guy your playing can actually play eldar then! That's a tough set up and one I have run myself. I think your best bet then may have to be a combination. You don't want to focus everything on them, prioratise but you might want to try disintegrator cannons. It you had 3 on a Ravager that's 9 st 5 ap 2 shots. It won't help you against th invulnerables but it does have the added strength.

This also really depends on your combat drugs, if you can get the +1 st then I would still run wyches into them and continue shooting them from range with warriors in raiders.

Those flame attacks can be brutal for us so I would still advise ranged shooting then when they have been wittier down a bit, assault them, maybe try using Reavers to chase them around the board, using bladevanes they shouldn't be able to catch you
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 11:38

Oh and try Shardcarbines and splinter cannons on Kabalite trueborns, you will get a lot of shots from that and should be out of template range

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gunnerboy1607
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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 12:03

hahahha i use to be an eldar player myself, but i didnt have the passion for it like i do for my DE Razz and its adding insult to injury when hes using the models u sold to him! Razz but yeah he can play pretty well Razz havent played that rmy though, but he uses it as a threat Razz

but thank you for that tip! i forgot we had dizzies! Very Happy THANKS

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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 23:08

Your welcome, best of luck hope it works! Yeah I played Tau, hated them, Eldar absolutely loved them but got so bored. In all honesty it does get boring when you know how to use an army like that to good effect and it actually becomes hard to lose! Thats why I went to the dark side, a bit more flavour then the space hippies- and the gemstones looked lame.

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PostSubject: Re: assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids   assistance needed! DE against eldar, wolves, GK, crons and nids I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 20 2011, 08:19

oh trust me, i loved them too! mostly my firedragons in falcon jsut suiciding! >Very Happy and my farseers with doom and guide on my dire avengers!!! but yeah, it just doesnt work for me. :/
HAHAHAHAHA! i like that "SPACE HIPPIES"... Razz

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