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 Playing against the new Necrons

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nalfen
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PostSubject: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 09 2011, 16:50

I will be against the newly revised Necrons next week end and was thinking of making a wych spam tarpit army to contain their expensive units until i can maneuver in a good enough position where i feel confident enough to destroy without much retaliation.

I doubt i will be seeing any of the new vehicles but i can expect 2 monoliths but those should be manageable with the new rules using blasterborn.

I have no idea what to bring as heavy? The tried and tested triple ravager or go Haemi and WWP and bring 3 taloi along with some beastmasters to truly tarpit everything?

Last thing, i am probably shooting myself in the foot here but i want to bring a Leleith on the field, been dying to field her even though she ain't that great.

Any ideas are welcome

Oh and its a 3k list so this will be painful for me....
EDIT: he bought the new units today... so im gona face a doomsday cannon for sure along with some of the new goodies yay Sad

thx

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lululu_42
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 09 2011, 22:01

Haven't played against them but all there units have I2 so they will buckle under CC. If he's like a lot of the Necron players I have been reading in Battle Reports he will probably try to keep Night Fighting as long as possible and from what I have been hearing is that it hurts them more than us so use that to your advantage. Looks like Necrons kill zone is anything in 24"- 6". Stay out of range and engage into CC fast and hard. Mind there vehicles since there probably the most dangerous. Thats my 2 cents.

also everything has a Ld 10 so trying to make the run off is a bad idea.

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Phototoxin
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 09 2011, 23:21

the trick to stop WBB/protocols is to totally wipe a unit. To me that means disintegrators and lots of splinter cannons. Sheer volume of fire is your friend.

As a long time player of 'crons the kill zone is indeed the 24-7inch range. Close but not too close. Necrons are slow and tough with the odd burst of speed. Be prepared for this but generally try to outmaneouver and totally wipe units. Bogging down in melee might be an idea but unless you can deal the damage I'd be careful - wyches get a 4++ in combat, warriors get a 4+ and then a 5+ WBB type roll...
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 00:58

Wyches get a 4++ and a 4+ FNP, if you want to look at it that way, Wyches also usually lug in a power weapon. There aren't too many units that can out grind Wyches, certainly generic Crons are not amongst them.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 03:26

Worst thing about them is fact they have (literally) 5++ Ward save.
Try picking Shattershard, it remove models from play (so no WWB) so You may remove some CC baddies that way.

I wonder if he actually don't want to use Tesla Destructors*, they not only can damage multiple units but also can do this to units in CC. And it count as "shooting" without cover saves, so only 6+ save and FNP (if You have it) apply.

I really wonder what he would pick... Probably Scarabs since they got A LOT better and can act as bubblewrap.
DArk is also in apparently.
I guess he may want to take Tesla Immortals, since those guys... are best "normal" troops in book. If he would pick Blasters or Warriors, giggle.
Also Tomb Blades are interesting since for 40 points (cost of Destroyer) he can have... Destroyer-like unit, with S6 blasts and 4+ save with stealth (so in cover he have Destroyers, only better).

Dunno... it's 3k? Do You use some sort of double/bigger FOC?

I guess You want Voidravens with 4x10 point missiles and ALL upgrades in heavy. You totally want to clear the way with them from Scarabs (blasts score double wounds on them), as well as Void Lances.

In troops I would pick... Wracks.
A) Liquifiers.
B) FNP (not negated by TD and most of their weapons)
C) T4.
D) Raiders.
E) Poison

In Elites... torn between Incubi, Bloodbrides and Grotesques since he should not have that much vehicles (and they count as AV12 for us) but infantry... argh.

In Fast I would see either Beasts, Hellions or Reavers.

*again with rabble-rabble, I know.

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DarkKokabel
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 05:05

I played a game against the new crons today and played with them on Saturday. All I have to say is, if you're playing against a competent player, beware close combat! Sure, most necrons can't punch worth crap, but it literally took me, as a non cron player, less than 5 minutes to make a 295 point unit, while reading the rules, that ate over 700 points of Black Templar, in assault. And my units today saw how fierce they can be too. It may not be cheap, but if they have an assault unit (lychguard, cron lords as part of the royal court, etc.) it will kill a lot of stuff.
As for shooting, a lot of it we have seen before. Use the normal strategies there. Dunno how your game group has ruled it but the way we play it is that lances still bump them down to AV 12.
I played a 2k game and dissies are god. Period. 2 voidravens and a dissie ravager later, there were a lot of crons dropped at the end of each shooting face. And since they stood back up, there was just enough of a unit to kill and get a pain token for a unit. My main CC unit (9 incubi w/ klaivex and upgrades + Lady Malys) ended up with 5 or 6 pain tokens by the end of the game.
Oh and they can split up a royal court and put a lord with a res orb and war scythe in quite a few units and hide them just like Nobz in a unit of Boyz.
And for the record the assault unit I made, and you will probably want to watch for this, 5 Lords w/ 3 warscythes, 2 staves of light, 4 mindshackle scarabs, and 1 tesseract labyrinth. They will make you punch yourself in the face. With your own power weapons. It's how I killed a unit of terminators (3 of 5 terminators turned on their brothers and punched them in the face with their power fists) and pretty much everything else on the board.
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nalfen
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 05:24

Nah basic FoC so it might be hurting me.

Also i recently started DE and my local groups are very WYSIWYG so i can only field 2 voidravens at most (those things take forever to convert), i will field one for sure to drop the doomsday cannon.

With 3k im almost considering vect with barge...

The wracks are a good idea, a good liquifier roll and it pays itself beck tenfold

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 05:51

If You have/can borrow Razorwing, You can also add one to pair of VR. If it would have Dissies and SC, it would be great.

And I totally agree with DarkKokabel - if they pick Assault unit, it "IS" Assault unit. Warscythes are probably one of best CC weapons in entire game (I could say Tankhammers are better for their cost but lack PW effect and are in crappy unit, so... no.). Same with Scarab "mindhumpers".

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 06:36

And be aware of the Phantoms, they can reduce your INI zu 1, and that can really suck!

I guess the best way to go is(as usual) shoot their CC and Assault their Shooting. Inccubi could really come in handy against them, especially if you let them wild in their standard Section ;-)

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The Strange Dude
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 07:33

I think your biggest problem is gonna be the 3k points at that points level you have filled your FOC with efficent units with points to spare and are probably just padding out your list.

As ever I am also an advocate for Night Shields which for the most part will limit his shooting to 18" (6" if rapid firing) giving you a little more space to manuver.

The Stormlord seems to be a popular choice (night-fighting and lightning strikes) one thing to remember if your opponent uses a solar pulse to negate night-fighting for his turn he also forgoes his lightning attacks (which only occur if the night fighting rules are still in play). If facing him I'd be tempted if possible to give him first turn and reserve everything by the time he gets to a lightning phase he can actually hit something of yours (his turn 3) he will already have had to make a 3+ roll and then a 4+ to keep his night fight going.

Another unit to kill quick is the HQ with warsycthe and command barge combo which will wreck vehicles very quickly (turbo-boost over unit 3 4+ to hit str 7 + 2d6 armour pen hits).

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 11:15

Going to play them on Friday myself.

All I know is that the dude I'm playing is going to tailor to play DE, I'm gonna go there with my KabalVenomSpam and just whipe him of the table.

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 15:47

Remember to keep in mind that the Necron units get roughly a third of their casualties back at the end of the phase, unless you wipe the unit. So, as others have said, concentration of fire is key. It's useless to spread your fire, as they come back on a 5+.

Other than that, they aren't all that great in combat, even their HQ units. They're all I2, for the most part, and their close-combat gear isn't all that scary. Try to shoot their vehicles from behind, to avoid the Quantum Shielding.

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fenrisnorth
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 17:16

the 2+/3++ on ICs is annoying, though. Those guys are just Assault Termies who've gone anorexic! Playing agaonst the 'crons will be functionally the same s playing 90% of the other armies in the game. Focus all your offense on one isolated thing, (or one side of a turtled army) and retreat, relentlessly hounding him until he begs for mercy. (And blast those damned vehicles first =P.)

On that note, WHY are we fighting the necrons? We don't defend, and they have nothing we want (I.e. souls or pain, or fear) I'll be trying to team up with Necrons whenever possible as that actually makes more sense.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 17:52

Don't they have emotions now? I'm not up on the new fluff but I thought they weren't all automatons anymore.

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fenrisnorth
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 17:56

They're like Data from STTNG, maybe like Lor. But the description of the Silent King's realization made it sound like there was either programmed emotions, or the memory/echo of emotions

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Marquis Vaulkhere
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 18:03

Good point fenrisnorth, There is no point attacking the necrons; save getting my hands on some of that awesome tec. I would want to team up asap. There subborn refusal to die would contrast well with our stubborn refusal to let anyone live.

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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 19:40

I havent played them yet, but pretty much your looking at a fun battle.\

I dont think we can outshoot them (on the basic fact that they get up) but we can definately put a hurt on them in the shooting phase. Full warrior squads in raiders will do the trick (you are trying to fill up points arentcha Razz )

now I think to whipe out some squads, wyches are a must. But be careful as they are only S3, so those lychguard will make short work of them (you cant win combat if you cant wound them) so maybe a squad or two will help, just watch out what you target (or get them FC early by killing some scarabs or warriors)

now for HQs, I think any of the normal ones will help. Alot of their ICs are garbage at damage output and can be taken down with ease, so you might want to invest in a HB/ST archon (and the extra strength will help out) Remember though the court isnt an IC, so targe their Overlords

As for elites: Blasterborn are a must, lances hurts their Shielding vehicles alot, and can finally take out their monos.

Incubi would be interesting against lychguard without shields, I havent done the math, but it you "should" come out on top, but at a high cost, against other crons though they will cut through like butter

Bloodbrides are a great retinue for your Archons if you dont take wyches, but you lose a blasterborn unit so watch out.

FA: Reavers and Scourges are great, More AT on the field the better (especially since you are playing at 3k) but beasts could put the hurt on warrior squads as well, and gives you another assault unit. A tough choice.

HS: Tri-Ravager all the way. Unless you know he is running a ton of Immortals (which have to be on foot if they arent in the plane) I dont think the razorwing will be benifitial. If you have the points you could possibly run 3 voidravens, as they do about the same damage statistically as the ravager, just with missles (and a high price tag)

I wouldnt bring our MCs personally, they will get eaten up in CC against their lords and lychguard, and they have stronger shooting than most armies (and have ways of putting extra hits on you, telsa is almsot as good as our SC for pooring wounds on a unit) and they will die real quickly. stick to tanks and make them shoot you with AT guns.

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 11 2011, 15:00

Personally, my Archon hates the Necrons, as he remembers the myths of how the Necrons fought and lost againt the Ancient Eldar long ago, and obviously they didn't do the job properly, so like any true Dark Eldar, he's going to show them how it's done!

Sure, they don't really have anything we want, but you have to remember, there's the above-mentioned ancient animosity between the two races, and the fact that we both are after the same thing. Sure, we might not be defending our own populations, but it might be a case of an overly-expansionistic Overlord getting a little too close to an Archon's favoured "farm", and so the Overlord needs to be "persuaded" to assimilate elsewhere.

When you actually think about it, there's plenty of reasons why the Dark Eldar and Necrons should be fighting. If anything, there isn't that much to make us ally with them. We've both got super-tech, we can get our own souls, we don't exactly need protection, so... yeah, not that much they can offer to us, and we can't offer them much in return.

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PostSubject: Re: Playing against the new Necrons   Playing against the new Necrons I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 11 2011, 16:37

I'd say one Razowing along with the Ravagers would be very good against Necrons. They will certainly use Scarabs, which can tear tanks apart but are obliterated by blasts (being swarms, blasts deal double wounds to them, and Razorwing's missiles are high enough strenght to each of those wounds to instakill a Scarab base so a single missile should wipe out the whole units), and Necrons seem to be one of the few armies that will probably be atleast partly footslogging.

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