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 Beating Overwatch

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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
Hellion
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PostSubject: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 09:06

Rule check
Can I disembark my incubi out of a raider and move the raider to 1" of a unit?
Its not charging just moving to 1" of the enemy unit
Then the incubi move and charge and are not over watched?
As the raider is within 1" of the enemy

Just trying to figure out ways to get into combat without being shot

My raider would then get to attack
in the close combat round after the charging incubi?

Cheers

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 09:14

You can't move within 1" of an enemy model in the movement phase so that tactic won't work. Best option to avoid overwatch is to charge from a position where you are not in LOS of the unit you're charging and/or are out of range of their weapons. Failing that, just charge with the Raider first to absorb the overwatch and then charge with your Incubi.

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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 17:04

@Count Adhemar wrote:
You can't move within 1" of an enemy model in the movement phase so that tactic won't work. Best option to avoid overwatch is to charge from a position where you are not in LOS of the unit you're charging and/or are out of range of their weapons. Failing that, just charge with the Raider first to absorb the overwatch and then charge with your Incubi.

holy cow. would that work?

I mean in 7th ed it didn't, as range didn't matter for overwatch. But does it in fact matter in 8th?

That would mean that if you're 9 inches out, a flamer is useless to fire overwatch?
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 17:22

Yes. Both range and line of sight are relevant for Overwatch.

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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 17:45

Charging a raider in does not absorb overwatch as units get to fire overwatch at multiple units
Where in the rulebook does it say you can shoot overwatch once only?


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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 17:50

You can't fire overwatch when you are engaged in close combat. So if the raider isn't killed by the overwatch, the charged unit cannot fire at other charging units.

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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 17:54

So that means my incubi stand out for a turn vunerable to shooting
Thought there might be a better way of doing things
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 18:42

No they aren't

- Disembark Incubi from the Raider
- Move the incubi in the movement phase
- Move the raider in the movement phase
- Charge with the raider. He takes overwatch.
- Charge with the Incubi at the same target. Target is already engaged, and cannot fire overwatch.

All this happens in the same turn. At the beginning of the turn, Incubi are in the vehicle. At the end of the turn, they are in cc.

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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 18:58

It doesnt work like that
U declare chargers
U resolve overwatch against each unit charging
You then move models 2d6 at declared units
It states very clearly also overwatchers can also shoot multiple units

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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 19:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnSqRHnTlI

watch this and all the other related videos if you haven't - very good for learning 8th
Explains charging close combat and there is one on advanced close combat
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 19:16

Recaps you find in the rules :

Quote :

1.
Choose unit to charge with
2.
Choose targets
3.
Enemy resolves Overwatch
4.
Roll 2D6 and make charge move

Notice the fact that the word "Unit" isn't a plural in the first step ? That indicates you that you make those 4 steps for each unit you wish to charge for. You don't make step 1 for every unit, then step 2 for every unit, etc... you do steps 1-4 for unit A, then steps 1-4 for unit B.

So yes, charging a raider first to eat overwatch is a way to prevent overwatch for incubi charging on the same turn.

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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 21:14

Ok
Thanks for clarifying that
I was playing it right but saw a forum post elsewhere on some marine site that made be recheck the rule
Cheers
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 06 2017, 22:08

Np.
Marines can be confusing with their weird interpretations of rules i guess Razz

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 08 2017, 02:29

So on the Out of LoS topic, How easily do our vehicles hide Reavers behind them?

Edit: I've just remembered that along with units no longer giving cover saves to allies behind them, they also don't block Line of Sight. Carry on.

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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 08 2017, 04:14

You can use marines rhinos and land raiders to your advantage hiding behind them charging around the sides keeping 1 away
Possible depending on positioning
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 08 2017, 07:36

No way reavers or hellions can hide behind rhinos they are to big. Versus a land raider it might, but I still think the reavers/hellions are to high.

You really need big pieces of terrain for that is my experience.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 08 2017, 09:09

@Barrywise wrote:
So on the Out of LoS topic, How easily do our vehicles hide Reavers behind them?

Edit: I've just remembered that along with units no longer giving cover saves to allies behind them, they also don't block Line of Sight. Carry on.

They block LOS if they physically block LOS but that's pretty hard to do. Only exception is models in the firing models own unit, which can be seen through even if they do physically block LOS.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 08 2017, 10:30

That's why i would love a succubus on a reaver jetbike. She would be super easy to hide behind a vehicle. You could then charge her without overwatch (coz no LOS), then charge her retinue without overwatch (because the enemy is already engaged)

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masamune
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PostSubject: Re: Beating Overwatch   Beating Overwatch I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 08 2017, 10:44

Or maybe use smaller bases transparent stuff to get our reavers physically lower Razz

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