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 A Few Tips...

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DrBored
Hellion
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Join date : 2011-05-19
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeThu May 26 2011, 21:37

In my games with Dark Eldar, I've learned a few things that you may want to consider as you build your lists. These are in no particular order, and feel free to argue them!

1. Razorflails are the best, wound for wound, math for math, of the 3 Wych weapon upgrades under every single combat drug (the math has been done, even if you get 're-roll wounds', Hydra Gauntlets are still only sometimes /as/ good, never better on average).

2. Razorwing Jetfighters become beasts when you give them Disintegrator Cannons, a Splinter Cannon, and pretty much any missile. Monoscythe is decent for the cheap, and Shatterfield is fantastic if you want to pile on the wounds, and have a chance at glancing some vehicles. Str 7 ap - needs 5's and 6's to pen Rhino front armor, but out of 4 missiles, if there's a Rhino or Razorback that really needs to not shoot next turn, you might as well! I have to recommend the Monoscythe, since they're very good for their points value (free). This turns your Razorwing into an anti-infantry beast, better than taking a Ravager with 3 Disintegrator Cannons.

3. Bloodbrides are most effective in squads of 9 with Shardnets, and when attached to an Archon with a Clone Field. This keeps your HQ safe in a bubble of wounds, and allows that Archon to ignore any attacks swung at him by monstrous creatures or other IC's. Even if the squad dies out, your Archon will have many, many chances to get those kills in for his Soultrap to take effect.

4. Unless equipped with the above, it's almost always better (and definitely cheaper) to take Wyches over Bloodbrides. Bloodbrides may get more attacks, but they die the same as Wyches, so if you're looking for a tarpit unit, just stick with Wyches. At least regular Wyches also count as troops!

5. Be warned! Taking Haemonucli just to give your models a Pain Token also means you have an extra model to turn into your opponent's kill point!

6. Be warned! Vect's Raider doesn't benefit from the Ravager's ability to move 12" and fire all weapons! This is the main reason why it's not worth the 200 points that it costs. Keep Vect cheap and put him in a regular Raider.

7. Voidraven Bombers have a higher chance of penning things, though Ravagers have a higher chance of getting hits in. In the end, the math works out that the chances are relatively equivalent, until you start facing Monoliths and Land Raiders. Because neither of those are very common in tournaments, it's almost always better (and cheaper) to just take that third Ravager instead of a Voidraven. Sad but true.

8. Never give your Archon a Blaster.
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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeThu May 26 2011, 22:04

@DrBored wrote:
6. Be warned! Vect's Raider doesn't benefit from the Ravager's ability to move 12" and fire all weapons! This is the main reason why it's not worth the 200 points that it costs. Keep Vect cheap and put him in a regular Raider.
Holy crap. I never thought of that.

@DrBored wrote:
8. Never give your Archon a Blaster.
Besides the "it looks cool" factor, I agree.
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Todo13
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeThu May 26 2011, 22:39

Would u give yOur wyches shardnets or not?
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Rabid Bunny
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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeFri May 27 2011, 03:23

I don't see the need for Shardnets, I generally run my Wyches with haywire Grenades and a Hekatrix with Agonizer so I can chip at the enemy whilst holding them up. The Shardnets are handy, but not worth the points.
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Rangrok1k
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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeFri May 27 2011, 04:32

How do people miss the amazing synergy between Shardnet and Impaler with Clonefield? Get 3 or 4 Bloodbrides with 3 Shardnet and Impalers, maybe even a Syren for the extra spice, throw your Archon with Clonefield, Huskblade, Soul-trap, combat drugs etc, and then go off and kill in a Venom. An Archon has a 50% chance to kill a Hive Tyrant with a Huskblade, the turn he charges. 3 Sharnet and Impalers knock off 3 out of the Hive Tyrant's base 4 attacks, and Clonefield negates the last one. Easy KP!

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DrBored
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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeFri May 27 2011, 06:44

@Todo13 wrote:
Would u give yOur wyches shardnets or not?

I actually just ran a squad of Bloodbrides with 3 shardnets and Lelith (who also has a shardnet) against a 700+ point of Eldar Warlocks on jetbikes with Eldrad in the mix.

They held the assault, even though they were worth half the points, for over 6 assault turns (3 game turns) and took the squad of 9 or so down to 5 (those 3+ invul re-rollable were killer). They wouldn't have lasted if they hadn't had a pain token, but still, they were able to deny that squad upwards of 8 attacks each round, which definitely helped their survivability.

Bloodbrides are the few squads that can tarpit because of the Shardnets. Regular Wyches are better off with Razorflails.
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Venkh
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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 12:32

Personally i give my wyches nothing except haywire grenades (always) and a hekatrix with an agoniser or if im trying to save points, a venom blade.

First of all the special weapons all cost the same as a wych. Another wych is almost always better than one of these anyway. I also see little point in taking maxed out squads I always almost find that i need the points elsewhere.

Shardnets are OK until your opponent figures them out. Then his characters and hidden fists will be bubblewrapped behind normal squad members. MC's should ALWAYS be exterminated with poison shots and walkers should be lanced to death. You shouldnt be planning to take on dreads in melee. Hitting on 6's sucks.

I consider a perfect wych unit to be 8 girls with the upgrades above in a plain raider accompanied by a haemonculous (pain token and liquifier)

I dont see any point in bloodbrides, you pay lots of points for mosyly useless s3 attacks and more sub optimal upgrades. You lose the ability to be scoring and an elite slot which is better filled with blasterborn or perhaps Incubi.



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xerxeshavelock
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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 13:01

@Rangrok1k wrote:
How do people miss the amazing synergy between Shardnet and Impaler with Clonefield? Get 3 or 4 Bloodbrides with 3 Shardnet and Impalers, maybe even a Syren for the extra spice, throw your Archon with Clonefield, Huskblade, Soul-trap, combat drugs etc, and then go off and kill in a Venom. An Archon has a 50% chance to kill a Hive Tyrant with a Huskblade, the turn he charges. 3 Sharnet and Impalers knock off 3 out of the Hive Tyrant's base 4 attacks, and Clonefield negates the last one. Easy KP!

While it may not be the most points-effective combination I love the idea. Anything that frustrates the opponent has a place in a DE army imo Smile
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Radium
Kabalite Warrior
Radium

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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 13:17

@DrBored wrote:
Razorflails are the best, wound for wound, math for math, of the 3 Wych weapon upgrades under every single combat drug (the math has been done, even if you get 're-roll wounds', Hydra Gauntlets are still only sometimes /as/ good, never better on average).

My math tells me something different. For most drugs you need to roll a 4+ to match the flails, so hydra gauntlets are better than razorflails 1/3 of the time and equal to or better 1/2 the time. When getting rerolls to wound the hydra gauntlets are better on a 3+.
In my book that means hydra gauntlets are better than razorflails a little over half the time. Razorflails are more reliable, though.

I agree with almost everything else you say. Except for Land Raiders not being common in tournaments and not giving Archons a blaster.

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Despiciens
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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 18:26

@Rangrok1k wrote:
How do people miss the amazing synergy between Shardnet and Impaler with Clonefield? Get 3 or 4 Bloodbrides with 3 Shardnet and Impalers, maybe even a Syren for the extra spice, throw your Archon with Clonefield, Huskblade, Soul-trap, combat drugs etc, and then go off and kill in a Venom. An Archon has a 50% chance to kill a Hive Tyrant with a Huskblade, the turn he charges. 3 Sharnet and Impalers knock off 3 out of the Hive Tyrant's base 4 attacks, and Clonefield negates the last one. Easy KP!
Well you would need 9 Bloodbrides to have 3 shardnets and impalers so that could be the reason no one has taken this combination. As it is the combination with the required 9 bloodbrides/raider is a little too points heavy to be effective. Although I'm biased as I dislike the huskblade soultrap combo. I've ran it a few times and dont find it effective enough.
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: A Few Tips...   A Few Tips... I_icon_minitimeTue May 31 2011, 08:20

@DrBored wrote:

1. Razorflails are the best, wound for wound, math for math, of the 3 Wych weapon upgrades under every single combat drug (the math has been done, even if you get 're-roll wounds', Hydra Gauntlets are still only sometimes /as/ good, never better on average).

I perfer shardnet tbh. But it all depends on what you want your unit to do.

@DrBored wrote:
2. Razorwing Jetfighters become beasts when you give them Disintegrator Cannons, a Splinter Cannon, and pretty much any missile. Monoscythe is decent for the cheap, and Shatterfield is fantastic if you want to pile on the wounds, and have a chance at glancing some vehicles. Str 7 ap - needs 5's and 6's to pen Rhino front armor, but out of 4 missiles, if there's a Rhino or Razorback that really needs to not shoot next turn, you might as well! I have to recommend the Monoscythe, since they're very good for their points value (free). This turns your Razorwing into an anti-infantry beast, better than taking a Ravager with 3 Disintegrator Cannons.

That all depends on what you want your Heavy support to do. But I agree that when you are taking a Razorwing you are going to shoot infantary not AT.

Ravangers you want for AT.

@DrBored wrote:

6. Be warned! Vect's Raider doesn't benefit from the Ravager's ability to move 12" and fire all weapons! This is the main reason why it's not worth the 200 points that it costs. Keep Vect cheap and put him in a regular Raider.

Rather say be warned, dont take Vect he's to expensive and you got other SC that are better. (Duke and Baron)

But ye the DoD is just redicules.

@DrBored wrote:

7. Voidraven Bombers have a higher chance of penning things, though Ravagers have a higher chance of getting hits in. In the end, the math works out that the chances are relatively equivalent, until you start facing Monoliths and Land Raiders. Because neither of those are very common in tournaments, it's almost always better (and cheaper) to just take that third Ravager instead of a Voidraven. Sad but true.

Totaly agree, the bomber is just to expensive, and the if you want missiles you go razorwing.

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