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PostSubject: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 31 2011, 11:44

Hello. I've just bought the DE codex and my first box of Kabalite warriors and would like the forum's opinion on my first 1000 point list please.

Archon: 160
Splinter Pistol, Husk Blade, Shadow Field, Phantasm Grenade Launcher.

4 Incubi: 118
Klaivex w/ Bloodstone.

Venom: 65
2 Splinter Cannon.

10 Kabalite Warriors: 165
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite w/ Phantasm Grenade Launcher and Agoniser.

Raider: 80
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks.

10 Wyches:
Hydra Gauntlets, Razorflails, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser

Raider: 80
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Splinter Racks.

5 Scourges: 137
Heat Lance, Blaster.

I think that comes to 975 points in total. Does this list have any glaring errors? I'd like to know because I've only ever played as Death Guard.
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Phototoxin
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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 31 2011, 13:29

I'm still only a theroy expert but:

I'd drop the klavex (if the archon goes with them they will be over-killy!)

The raider seems a bit expensive with the splinter racks - it won't last long as a gun boat

The splinterracks are all but useless on the wych squad

I'd make the scourges all have the same weapons or maximise them somehow. 2 blasters or 2 heatlances.

I'd try to use the shaved points to include a ravager with flicker field, maybe even dropping the huskblade for agoniser and dropping the shadowfield as well. It's good but you should hopefully kill stuff before it hits back (or else use a clone field to absorb powerfists?)
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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 31 2011, 14:22

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (as this is probably the third time I've plugged this option) I'd go with at least one Haywire Blaster for the Scourges. Maybe one of those and a heat lance, otherwise you might find getting into melta range by relying on the Blaster risky (I'm guessing that's what you're going for). In a squad that size, like Phototoxin says, you're probably best doubling up weapons, or you're going to be wasting points on one blaster to get them in suicidally close to use the heat lance, or wasting points on the heat lance keeping them further away to use the blaster. I used two Haywire Blasters in a battle against mech Eldar with no upgrades on his vehicles, and they were half the reason I won. Not great against Demonically possessed vehicles or anything else that ignores shaken and stunned results though.

A Shardnet and Impaler might be a better bet for the Wyches - robbing a dreadnought of an attack (which I recently checked you can do) is a sweet feeling indeed when your opponent has payed points for an additional close combat weapon, and the effect is reliable, unlike the Hydra Gauntlets. Also, it's not made worse by a combat drug roll like Razorflails, which lose half the reason to take them if you get Painbringer, allowing you to re-roll failed to wound rolls in combat.

On the Archon, although it makes him even more expensive, I always give him Ghostplate armour as well as a Shadow Field. You look really silly if he fails his first save against a lasgun then only has a 5+ and no invulnerable. The Phantasm Grenade Launcher is pricey for what it does when he has plasma grenades as part of his standard loadout, so I'd be tempted to drop that and give him Ghostplate and maybe combat drugs or haywire grenades. Or all of the above. I've actually gone a bit cold on the Archon. Either he gets everything firing at him (so he's an effective but expensive bullet magnet) or he gets into combat and forgets how to fight. I've had more success with a Haemonculus gifting my wyches a pain token, and will be trying out Urien Rakarth and a Succubus soon, as I managed to find them in metal for a discounted price. Yay!

I'd also lose the Klaivex. Not only does it make that squad incredibly expensive with the Archon, him, the Incubi and the transport, there's no model for him, so on a practical level you might have a problem there, unless you're up for converting stuff or can find an old Drazhar model.

I personally give my vehicles Night Shields as well as Flickerfields and never give them splinter racks, although I don't have a splinter cannon for my warriors, so that's just personal taste. It does increase their survivability though, and annoys opponents with melta weaponry.

If you have spare points left over, like the 25 in your original list, and you're just playing against friends or whatever to get you started, you might as well max out on vehicle upgrades if you're happy with your squad loadouts. Yeah, you could have another vehicle or whatever, and split your troops into squads of five, but practically speaking it costs money. I'm always scared of making troops units that small anyway, I came from playing Orks!

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POwell0
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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 31 2011, 17:58

I am a new DE player aswell and this is what i have learnt so far.

I agree with dropping the splinter racks for nightshields. They are the Bane of short range armies and melta heavy armies.
I would drop the Klaivex because if the Archon is with them they will be left with no opponent after most combats and free to be shot up (found that out the hard way), also the bloodstone sounds good but these guys should be fleeting not shooting.
I however disagree with losing the Shadowfield, it increases the Archons survivability no end and even if you do fail a roll a 4+/6++ wont save you. Combat drugs are highly useful on an Archon, OK they are random but nearly all the results are useful and some just make an already good fighter into something most players will HATE!!! ( I rolled +1 strength in a recent game and re-rolling poisoned weapons are VERY nasty, Lots of swearing and cursing as my Archon and wyches cut down his prized TH/SS termies in 2 rounds of combat).

Hope you enjoy using the black pointy ears as much as I am.
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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 01 2011, 10:41

Wicked, thank you for your opinions/experiences. I'm very grateful and your feedback makes sense. I've revised my list as follows:

Archon: 170
Splinter Pistol, Husk Blade, Shadow Field, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Ghostplate Armour

4 Incubi: 88

Venom: 75
2 Splinter Cannon, Night Shields

10 Kabalite Warriors: 165
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite w/ Phantasm Grenade Launcher and Agoniser.

Raider: 80
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Night Shields.

10 Wyches:
Hydra Gauntlets, Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser

Raider: 80
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Night Shields.

5 Scourges: 132
Heat Lance, Haywire Blaster.

Total: 960

Does anyone have any tips for the remaining 40 points?

My reasoning for many of the weapon options (like the scourges and wyches) are based on what the GW boxed sets contain in terms of weapon options i.e. I'm sure the Scourge box doesn't contain two heat lances. I'm really looking forward to collecting and playing this army. I painted my first test models last night. I found them quite difficult to paint to my satisfaction.


Last edited by Verbal Underbelly on Tue Nov 01 2011, 13:19; edited 1 time in total
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 01 2011, 12:33

Isn't it annoying that they give you the option to have a squad of five of something which can take two of the same weapon, but only give you one in the box? A cynical person would say that's profiteering...

40 points is an annoying number to work with because it's not enough for another squad unless you shave points elsewhere, but still feels like a lot. You end up putting useless wargear on stuff just to bulk up on points, but if you're going to be doing that anyway, more vehicle upgrades, maybe a Solarite for the Scourges as a way to get a blast pistol (too expensive to be really practical though, and then you're stuck with it). Shock prows and torment grenade launchers on the Raiders might be fun, if you're fighting low leadership stuff, maybe chain snares. The great thing with the Raider is that you can build it to have certain upgrades, then if you don't feel like using it it just looks decorative.

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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03 2011, 08:46

Thanks for the advice. At the moment i'm going to concentrate on purchasing/painting the above list and see how I fair against my regular opponents. That should give me an idea on how DE play. I'm really looking forward to it after 6 years on and off with Plague Marines.

With the remaining 40 points I'll probably upgrade an incubi to a Kaivex with Demi Klaives...
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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03 2011, 22:00

Taking it from the top... those 40 points could well be more.

Quote :
Archon: 170
Splinter Pistol, Husk Blade, Shadow Field, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Ghostplate Armour
Considering you're playing at 1K, I have a hard time justifying the Huskblade over a basic Agoniser/PW. This guy is with Incubi, anyone that opposes him will be destroyed anyway. Also, that Ghostplate is wasted on him.

Quote :
4 Incubi: 88

Venom: 75
2 Splinter Cannon, Night Shields
Cool.

Quote :
10 Kabalite Warriors: 165
Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite w/ Phantasm Grenade Launcher and Agoniser.

Raider: 80
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Night Shields.
One thing you'll find out soon enough about Warriors is that more squads > bigger squads. For the same amount of points you could have 2 (!) 5-strong Blaster Warrior squads in bare Raiders.

Doubling your Darklight count from the investment in one fell swoop, and offering AI in smaller doses but arguably just as effective as your single squad. These guys shouldn't see cc anyways; you have Wyches and Incubi for that.

Quote :
10 Wyches: 170
Hydra Gauntlets, Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser

Raider: 80
Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Night Shields.
Cool, though the Gauntlets strike me as frivolous. Their ride won't benefit much from NS.

Quote :
5 Scourges: 132
Heat Lance, Haywire Blaster.
I love me some Scourges but, not having filled out your Troops slots (Scoring!!!!) has me questioning their necessity. As mentioned above, 120 points gets you a 2-Darklight Warrior squad, which does much the same as these guys... but are able to fill quite a few roles besides that. Granted, they don't have that 'cool' factor... don't underestimate the grunts though! Smile Should you decide to stick with them I'd recommend keeping the specials identical to solidify their strength.

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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 08 2011, 13:18

Cool thanks for your comments. A lot of the choices are based around the availability of components in GW boxed sets I'm afraid. I do agree that an agoniser might be better on the Archon and I've decided that combat drugs are a better bet instead of ghost armour.

At this stage I'll collect the above force and get a few games under my belt. There's a lot to collect and paint up there after all.

Just one question: is it a bit of a waste of time putting an agoniser on my Kabalite Warrior squad leader? Is a power weapon a better choice?
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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 08 2011, 13:21

Uh, neither one is a great choice. warriors should be runningaway from combat, if you get charged, you messed up.

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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 08 2011, 13:46

I'd say it is a waste of time, points and money to put a squad leader in your Kabalite Warriors.
If you realy want a squad leader let him at least keep his rifle, since that's what warriors are good at and should do. Shooting the crap out of enemies, not waggling around a wobbly blade and yelling around orders, leave it to the imperial monkeihs to do that.

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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 08 2011, 16:02

Hmmm, that's an interesting point of view. Don't what to do now because I've already stuck my squad leader together.

:S
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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 08 2011, 18:19

Scrap the model for Pain tokens.

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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 10:02

Um, no.
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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10 2011, 10:20

Verbal Underbelly wrote:
Um, no.

ok, the cut the weapons off and put other weapons on it. If you have used liquid glue for plastics (I use "Revell" - german manufacturer), it is quite easy. Or glue one of the splinter rifles in scabbard from the Raider/Ravager-Sprue on his back.

But that discussion should be held in the Painting and modelling discussion.

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PostSubject: Re: New DE Player   New DE Player I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 11 2011, 13:36

RE the squad leader i always put a power weapon on him just in case things dont go your way and they end up in a fight. At least then he has at least a remote chance of killing things
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