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Arrex
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PostSubject: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 15:32

I figured I'd start a thread about the dumb tactics I've seen DE players use (Okay, maybe me too!) for the edification of other generals.

1. Parking in the enemy's front yard on turn 1.

I don't normally do this one, because I want to be able to get off Dark Lance shots from my Raiders on the way in. (I also don't trust in a 4+ invulnerable save) But one of our local DE players is notorious for it. Almost every game I've played, he'll gleefully fly every transport he has straight across the table, and land them neatly in front of my ranged Black Templar units. (Which are in cover, usually toting Lascannons, meltas, etc) Then, because none of his transports can fire, he'll whiff with some ineffective fire support from his Ravagers, and most of my army will be unmolested.

On my turn, my fire support throws in everything including the kitchen sink, half his transports start exploding, and my CC elements dive in and charge the survivors. Usually by turn 3 things are looking pretty bleak for him, with my tanks still taking little damage (Predators and dreads in cover) while my Emperor's Champion is free to just get out of his parked Rhino and kill stuff. (I'm also generally amused when two squads of Wyches charge my LRC, destroying it completely and half of their own comrades in the process)

Moral of the story is, unless you can effectively nerf most enemy anti-tank for a turn, putting your transports within rock throwing distance of an entrenched army is suicide. Flickerfields and cover saves are not adequate defense from enemy fire; things will start exploding. (Pretty sure "explode" is the only result on the DE vehicle damage table) It also makes the job of a smart adversary easier, since he can just bank on you getting within range of his CC elements, and plan accordingly.

2. The Lone Ranger assault.

Another temptation people succumb to is moving that leading Raider forward, jumping the Wyches/Incubi out, and charging an enemy squad all by themselves. (Keep in mind that any general with a brain realizes that DE players tend to be aggressive, and he'll set up a defensive line with counter charging as part of the strategy) Even if that charge works out great, and you cripple the squad without it running away, etc, you'll likely get counter charged next turn, and then wiped out. Or if you destroy your target, now you're getting the undivided attention of all the other units nearby. Isolated assaults are throwing your units away. At best, all you can hope for is to trade bodies, and trading bodies is rarely a good strategy.

On the other hand, if you patiently line up simultaneous charges, you might find that even "overkill" units like maxed Incubus squads are no longer getting shot to pieces. My tactic is try to tie up multiple enemy units when I launch my assaults, and hope that my anti-tank/fire support has stunned enough vehicles beforehand. That way, if one of my assaults goes better than I expected, the enemy won't be able to spare the firepower to deal with them.
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Baron Tordeck
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 17:21

Forgetting your special rules.

IE in the last GT I went to I forgot my Baron and Hellions had Hit and Run and left them in combat with Purifiers for 3 turns

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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 19:33

I once placed my one and only portal too far forward against a space wolf player. The Haemy and wracks were charged 1st turn (after opening the portal) by thunderwolf cavalry, destroyed and then they surrounded the portal with their consolidation move. My beasts then had to enter the game from my board edge and for the most part were out of the game.

Never again.

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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 19:48

I've seen that one too, a portal too far forward gets surrounded and it's game over from there...

Combat drugs are the thing I always forget to roll for.
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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 19:54

@Arrex wrote:
I've seen that one too, a portal too far forward gets surrounded and it's game over from there...

Combat drugs are the thing I always forget to roll for.
Forgetting rolling for them isn't that bad of a mistake - forgetting you have them, however, means a lot. Mad (Did that a lot when I began with DE)

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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 22:49

Good thread. Nice to see an opposite, but just as valid approach, to tactics/advice.
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 12:25

Target priority. Oh yeah, poor skill of enemies win more then couple of games for my Orks.

99% times go from "I can only shoot/assault X" first to "I can shoot/assault X, Y and Z" later. 1% is for "slingshot" assaults and other tricky moves.

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BlckRven
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 15:01

Turn 1 Charging with Wyches and decide to take out some tanks/transports/landspeeders with them.

Great tactic, except that it is totally not great when you remember you are NOT locked in combat and CAN be shot to pieces now, crap...




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Smurfy
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 18:59

Above is generally the cost-for-benefit weighting of the moment.

Hm.

Well key thing for people to grasp is you can only affect a few vehicles a turn due to a harsh vehicle damage sequence. Biggest suggestion here is to play like Eldar and really have your Target Priority down turn-by-turn.

Do not treat your Heat Lances like Meltas. They do not have Strength 8 (They are Strength 6 Mad). They have more range yes, but remember the moment they get out of 2D6 range they are having trouble vs AV 11, a common AV you will be facing. (Unlike a normal Meltagun which can sit at 12" fine to deal with AV 10-12 due to it's Str 8.)

Reavers - When using Reavers, never EVER forget about their Eldar Jetbike status in the Assault Phase. Ditto for their Skilled Rider

Agonizer - It's realistically 1 more wound on many of your squad leaders, save it for the HQs and maybe if you're feeling lucky with some Wych cult units, but please, not everything.

Wychs - Special weapons are probably useful somewhere, but I find them pretty overrated when you are going for efficiency. Remember - can't do damage early on (unless you get a good Drug roll) but meant for tanking and holding up units you don't want to deal with early either

Passengers can only fire from a vehicle if it moved COMBAT SPEED regardless of the vehicle type/speed/etc. (Big one for a lot of armies getting used to Fast Vehicles)

No, your Skimmers cannot normally Tank Shock. (Hah, saw a few users on here fall into that pitfall)

All I can think of ATM.

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 01 2011, 00:02

Forgetting to fire Razorwing weaponry - so many shots!

Forgetting to roll for combat drugs - every single time so far!

Being so concerned about explaining my own wargear and special rules to my opponent that I forget theirs. The Lash of Submission essentially undid an entire flank because I didn't check the range AND forgot about it next turn.

Forgetting that my opponent might not be as honest/upfront as me in telling me their rules. Always read their Codex.

Forgetting to give units pain tokens when they kill stuff.

Forgetting to decide what the terrain is in detail before the start of the battle. So many disagreements because of that.

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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 01 2011, 02:18

My biggest mistake is getting Wyches out of the Raider like 10" or 11" from an enemy.........in cover........... bad bad bad

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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 01 2011, 07:21

Ditto for pain tokens I always forget to add them (I don't use humonculi) and if I do it's usually from multi assualts and I forget who I did give it to.

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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 01 2011, 20:52

I lost an Archon recently 'cause I forgot he had just nabbed a pain token. Of course, he wasn't going to be long for this world anyway since his shadowfield had dropped...
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 01 2011, 20:58

Combat Drugs are usually the easiest to forget, even when you have the Duke. I've gotten much better at it. Does anyone find that people give them a hard time if you roll it during your turn rather than the start of the game?

Other than that, remembering that your objective is not always to kill the entire army.
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 02 2011, 11:47

@Nameless wrote:
Other than that, remembering that your objective is not always to kill the entire army.

Its to enslave whatever you can Smile

Forgetting combat drugs and pain tokens is my most commen fault.

Also for some reason I started forgetting to deploy one of my troop choices latly...
Finished 2-3 matches now and "Wtf, why didnt I deploy that, oh frak, well won with 200pts less than you Wink )


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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 02 2011, 12:53

I'll Nth the Pain Token thing - I do that more than I care to.

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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 02 2011, 19:16

Pain token gets me when there's an initiative situation, like let's say Archon kills Independent character, then the unit manages to inflict wounds on the Archon.
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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03 2011, 19:36

Forgetting the combat drugs roll and assignment of pain tokens are two most common mistakes of mine. Especially the combat drug roll, I manage to forget it even when using Sliscus.

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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03 2011, 22:36

Ditto on the pain token memory loss, but after I forgot for about the first 3 games I started puting the pain tokens next to my dice on the table. I play with a pretty friendly group so they usually let me roll for the drugs whenever
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04 2011, 02:35

1) When troops are on foot, or when the transport has been destroyed, packing them closely together then watching a blast template cover them all
2)Forgetting that when a raider explodes it's strength 3 not strength 4 due to being open topped
3) pilling 1000s of haywire grenades on to a landraider then watching it spectaculary explode killing all surrounding wyches instantly

But where's the fun in not being a raging moron?

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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 05 2011, 05:16

@Grub wrote:

3) pilling 1000s of haywire grenades on to a landraider then watching it spectaculary explode killing all surrounding wyches instantly

But where's the fun in not being a raging moron?

The VERY last game I played against DE with my Black Templars I saw that one. Stupidly hilarious. "You better not explode that Land Raider. *rattle rattle* OH SHI-"
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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 06 2011, 01:26

I've done it so many times... My personal favourite was 1 remaining Wych on (I can't remember the name) master of the ravenwing land speeder thing- basically 100's of points cost total. Rolling a 6 to hit, another 6 to penetrate then another 6 to blow it up... And the Wych died, a fair cop though?

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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 06 2011, 02:46

@Grub wrote:
I've done it so many times... My personal favourite was 1 remaining Wych on (I can't remember the name) master of the ravenwing land speeder thing- basically 100's of points cost total. Rolling a 6 to hit, another 6 to penetrate then another 6 to blow it up... And the Wych died, a fair cop though?

One 12pt troop model killing the Master of the Ravenwing: I'd call that more than a fair trade cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 06 2011, 12:58

The guy didn't talk to me for a week! And hasn't used his Ravenwing against me since!

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PostSubject: Re: Common stupid mistakes.   Common stupid mistakes. I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 06 2011, 14:50

Obviously he never lost full unit of BA Assault Terminators (TH/SS) with Termie Reclusiarch and Termie Priest (that's ~700 points, not counting transport) unit to Big Gunz Grots (they cost less than cheapest member of Terminator squad)... Bam, got owned like Wych before they could attack (I think Priest and Reclusiarch got 1 Grot each).

Yay SpOrks!

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