THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Blackheart
Slave
Blackheart

Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-05-19
Location : Los Angeles, California

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 10:13

as we all know the Dark Eldar are the Emphasis on Glass Cannons and being Eldar, Embrace the wonderous tactic of hit and Run.

The Dark Lance Is a wonderful tool and is our signature Tank Busting weapon and is perfect on any vehicle (still questioning about the Dias though)

I was wondering though if it's a good Idea to put it on infantry like Scourges or Trueborn who excel at ranged punishment and I like to think of them using it as a sniping weapon (for tanks mostly) and also excell at speed (the trueborn being in Venoms/Raiders obviously) allowing them to change their position, allowing for more carnage...

my Idea was either having Lanceborn (basically the Blasterborn Idea with a long range purpose) Or Scourges with dark lances (5 being an Ideal number)
Back to top Go down
Saintspirit
Court of Cruelty
Saintspirit

Posts : 1002
Join date : 2011-05-19
Location : Sweden

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 10:25

Scourges with Dark Lances are a big no, I'd say. Jump infantry with heavy weapons feels just like a contradiction, as they can't use their biggest advantage - speed - if they want to use their fancy lancies.

I think Lanceborn might not be that of a bad idea, however. A nice tank sniper squad. However, I feel a warrior squad with a blaster and a lance are better for that, as they can also hold an objective while they're at it.

_________________
Kabal of the Shadow Phoenix - Background
Kabal of the Shadow Phoenix - Painting Blog
Modelled: 2753 pts
Painted: 2263pts

shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
Back to top Go down
Local_Ork
Fleshsculptor
Local_Ork

Posts : 1500
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Near good fight!

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 10:59

Short answer - Lanceborn FTW, rest is questionable.

Long answer - I would say this depends entierly on how You wany use unit. You want move unit - go with Blasters and Lances... on Raiders. If not (like in case Lanceborn, consider them AT Devastator squad) then why not?

IMHO 1 Warrior unit with Lance may have some logical explanation but If You can have Raider, then pick SC and Blaster for rest instead...

_________________
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? TattoosigtlInfantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? TattoosigseInfantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Tattoosigow
"Most vile thing you can read. Ever." - Our Forum Rules
Back to top Go down
Mr Believer
Wych
Mr Believer

Posts : 727
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : Nottinghamshire, UK

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 14:45

Not for the Scourges, definitely - you can give them Haywire Blasters, two of which can silence a tank a turn fairly reliably. I'm actually tempted by ten Scourges, two with Haywire blasters and one with a heat lance, then maybe a random other weapon on another. That way the Haywire guys can keep the tank quiet until the heat lance is in melta range. I've had reasonable success with Warriors with a dark lance though, just standing and shooting, as a decent sized squad can stay put for a while, especially in cover.

Don't know if I'd bother with dark lances for Trueborn, seeing as they should be moving at speed so the blaster is more viable for what they're probably going to be used for. If you don't mind the points cost I suppose you could have four blasters and two dark lances, but I'd still fill up on blasters first.

_________________
My other car is a Ravager
Back to top Go down
Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
Evil Space Elves

Posts : 3717
Join date : 2011-07-13
Location : Santa Cruz, ca

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 15:10

I get a little nervous using DE infantry as stationary snipers. The DL only has a 36" range....just like heavy bolters, multi lasers, scatter lasers, and every other anti-infantry weapon that can chew up a DE squad without effort. I'd rather use the mobility of our army to move into a position where the angle offers more protection after the shot is fired than to stand there and take it like a (hu)man.

_________________
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? JVMWVbU
"Solutions are good, how many dark eldar archons can you find sitting in their throne rooms whining that they used to rule the universe? Exactly."  -The Burning Eye
Splintermind: The Dark Eldar Podcast
My Dark Eldar Project Log
Back to top Go down
Blackheart
Slave
Blackheart

Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-05-19
Location : Los Angeles, California

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 16:20

shame... I don't want to waste all those Dark Lance Infantry bits... the Scourges are a no go from what I can tell... though I will experiment with Lanceborn... Stationary Dark Eldar is considered unorthodox, so I want to see how I can incorporate it into a viable strategy (perhaps they might have good synergy if they work with another unit?)

Theories aside I will put this Idea away for further though... If successful, then it will be another victory for the dark city indeed...
Back to top Go down
Local_Ork
Fleshsculptor
Local_Ork

Posts : 1500
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Near good fight!

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 16:49

Let me check in my little black book... [THUMP!]
http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t1374-advice-for-converting-blasters-for-trueborn

I'm pretty sure DL without barrel can be good Blaster...

It looks a little different but if You put conversions in one unit and original in another they should look OK.

btw. IMHO Lances should cost 15 points, +12" range + Heavy isn't worth 10 points difference from Blaster... more like 0.

_________________
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? TattoosigtlInfantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? TattoosigseInfantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Tattoosigow
"Most vile thing you can read. Ever." - Our Forum Rules
Back to top Go down
Todo13
Kabalite Warrior
Todo13

Posts : 196
Join date : 2011-05-19
Location : Canada

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 01:01

Warrior objective holding blobs or lanceborn are quite good, anything else, meh

_________________
Why do we ride atop these elegant craft? The better to hear the screams of our prey as we ride them down, to savour the fear etched on their faces, to taste the tantalising tang of their blood in the air as an appetiser before the feast -Dariaq Bladetongue of the Pierced Eye
Back to top Go down
Tiri Rana
Sybarite
Tiri Rana

Posts : 441
Join date : 2011-06-16
Location : Essen, Germany

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 01:25

I think lances really got nerfed with the new codex. Blasters seem to be our new Infantry's weapon of choice.

Warriors can field one lance every 10 models, that makes it very expensive to wield them, and I don't like the idea of wasting 9 splinterrifles on a tank.
Trueborn can take 2 lances per 3 models and while i like the idea of 2 sharpshooting Trueborns with a spotter, I'm rather sure I'll model some for Apoc games, I think 2 lances is inferior to 4 Blasters. Especially, because 24" Blaster range + 12" vehicle movement equals 36" Lance range.
Scourges can take lances and do this cheaper than others, but they loose their mobility, wich is their main feature. And Haywire Blasters are IMHO better.

_________________
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Tdcawardssigbestrules
I must rule with eye and claw — as the hawk among lesser birds.
Back to top Go down
Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
Shadows Revenge

Posts : 2587
Join date : 2011-08-10
Location : Bmore

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 15:57

Blasters are only 18" so the longest range your get out of it is 32" (12" from vehicle movement, 2" disembark, 18" range)

I have seen several lists with lanceborn, scourges w/ lances, and lance warriors in it, and they were decent, but I must say you had to build the list around the fact that your guys are on foot. He ran them all in venoms and raiders (which just drove around shooting and caused mayhem) and had a big squad of beasts w/ baron, and 3 razorwings.

Its pretty much your relying on everyones reliance on AT weapons to waste their shots into infantry in cover to silence your AT. The problem with this style of list has no way of dealing with the infantry that pops out other than the razorwing missles and the beast squad, which cant be at two places at once. On top of that it has no way of claiming objectives farther than the middle of the board, so you most likely have to table the opponent.

_________________
Status:
Usurping Kabal leadership for his Patriarch

Current List:
First 2k GSC List
Back to top Go down
a1elbow
Kabalite Warrior
a1elbow

Posts : 100
Join date : 2011-05-29

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 17:50

It needs a build to work. I don't like a Warrior blob or two just standing there with DLs while the rest of the army zooms around.

Basically, you need to get into people's face fast so they don't want/have no time/etc to deal with your squishy heavy weapon infantry. Beastmaster spam with DL infantry seems legitimate (2-3 DL TB, DL Scourge, 2Xbig Beast packs, maybe some Harlequins).

One thing about them is that they don't mix well with the rest of the force being mech. Any long range weapons that affect infantry better than vehicles will go into them and see them reduced pretty quick, especially the TB or Scourges.


People shouldn't worry so much about Scourges losing their mobility taking DLs. The important part is how they fit into the list. The entire army is fast, so it isn't like you are losing your only mobile squad. If they work with it, that is fine. If they don't, they shouldn't be in there.
Back to top Go down
Blackheart
Slave
Blackheart

Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-05-19
Location : Los Angeles, California

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 23:09

@Local_Ork wrote:
IMHO Lances should cost 15 points, +12" range + Heavy isn't worth 10 points difference from Blaster... more like 0.

+18"...

Blaster=18" Str 8 Assault 1, Lance

Dark Lance=36" Str 8 Heavy 1, Lance

A Blaster is basically a Sawed-off Dark Lance if you think about it...

I guess Phil could've done a better job by doing something similar to the splinter cannon... just make it less effective when moving rather than being stationary... just so we can be given the option of firing it on the move or not...

(possibly make it a Heavy3 or Assault 1?)

@a1elbow wrote:
People shouldn't worry so much about Scourges losing their mobility taking DLs. The important part is how they fit into the list. The entire army is fast, so it isn't like you are losing your only mobile squad. If they work with it, that is fine. If they don't, they shouldn't be in there.

seeing as Scourges role is to provide fire support rather than fight up close like most jump infantry, I think it would make sense of them having more reach and taking cover in some ruins or something where they can benefit with superior line of sight and good cover if needed... placing them a good distance from the main force sounds like a good plan if you do that... at least far enough where they aren't considered a big threat while still providing support


Last edited by Blackheart on Thu Oct 27 2011, 23:17; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding more stuff)
Back to top Go down
Mr Believer
Wych
Mr Believer

Posts : 727
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : Nottinghamshire, UK

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 00:53

Scourges with dark lances "working" in a list might be the wrong term to use here. Perhaps more a case of Scourges with dark lances being there because you haven't got enough lances across the rest of your choices, and they're a good way of getting a couple, or four in a full squad. The problem with them moving into position to use them is that the tank they're going to be firing at can see them, and unless it's something like a Vindicator it can probably fire at them them for a lot longer than they can fire at it. As an effective method of closing down part of the table they could work with dark lances, but not being able to move and fire with them makes them extremely vulnerable to being wiped out before they can use those expensive heavy weapons. Also, landing in the terrain they would need to take cover in to be able to set up for the shot would force a dangerous terrain test on them, so there's a good chance of losing at least one before they've even been shot at, just while they line up their shot.

Any of the other AT choices they can take allow them to move closer to their target using cover, then pop out last minute and bring it down in the same turn. Blasters effectively allow them a 30" range, which is only six less than the dark lances you probably won't have much chance to use, and Haywire blasters allow effectively the full 36", for less points and more reliable incapacitating results. Well, except against things that ignore shaken and stunned results. Don't know what to do against them!

_________________
My other car is a Ravager
Back to top Go down
a1elbow
Kabalite Warrior
a1elbow

Posts : 100
Join date : 2011-05-29

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 05:23

Mr Believer:

That is why I say you have to make them lower priority in terms of choosing targets. If someone is willing to shoot them, probably you could have made them a smaller target. The vast majority of lists they won't fit in because Ravagers and Jetbikes and Trueborn and Raiders are filling the AT slot better, but a list that uses your HS in other ways can benefit from the long ranged SA slot that Scourges provide. Little else in the slot provides this. Blaster Reavers are close, but not the same.

There is a beauty to the trade offs between the different FO slots in the DE codex that few other books have.
Back to top Go down
Massaen
Klaivex
Massaen

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2011-07-05
Location : Western Australia

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 12:01

I have been running 5 trueborn with 2 lances of late with alot of success... my opponents tend to ignore them until they have no other options!

_________________
Objective Secured - Western Australia's Premier 40k Event Organisers and Website
OBJECTIVE SECURED
Back to top Go down
http://objectivesecured.com.au/
Local_Ork
Fleshsculptor
Local_Ork

Posts : 1500
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Near good fight!

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 12:59

@Blackheart wrote:
@Local_Ork wrote:
IMHO Lances should cost 15 points, +12" range + Heavy isn't worth 10 points difference from Blaster... more like 0.

+18"...

Blaster=18" Str 8 Assault 1, Lance

Dark Lance=36" Str 8 Heavy 1, Lance

I've included 6" move to "threat boubble" because You can move forward. And assault. This is why Assault is important. Worded it poorly. Sorry.
IMHO only point decrese of DL is "fair" option. Raiders/Ravagers with triple shots would be... holy crap I would really like to see that! I would be nearly as good as Las/Plas Razorback.

_________________
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? TattoosigtlInfantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? TattoosigseInfantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Tattoosigow
"Most vile thing you can read. Ever." - Our Forum Rules
Back to top Go down
Grub
Wych
Grub

Posts : 823
Join date : 2011-09-04

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 17 2011, 23:58

Personally I find that giving DL to infantry is a bad idea. Every time I do it, i end up being to slow and getting killed very quickly. The best defence is not to be there when they start shooting.

Our troops are designed for speed, so i would say don't give scourges DLs and for the Lancerborn- swap it for a blasterborn squad. Makes better use of their speed and helps counter their vulnerabitlty. But don't get me wrong, I do take plenty of DL with me, just make sure they are mounted on raiders/ravagers giving full support to troops.

_________________
Delicious and Coven-Baked for your Pleasure

A very slow, 30K Salamander Distraction Log: VULKAN LIVES
Back to top Go down
Arrex
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 185
Join date : 2011-10-11

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 18 2011, 01:44

Like Maasen, I've found that people will generally ignore Lanceborn completely and totally. Target priority dictates that shooting at 5 guys with only two lances hiding in some 4+ cover is a waste of shots that should be going into something more dangerous, like a Raider full of troops, or a Ravager. Lanceborn are likely gonna be the last thing to go. They're also not terribly effective either, you're just adding a little icing to the Dark Lance cake. (Fortunately, they are cheap)
Back to top Go down
Arrex
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 185
Join date : 2011-10-11

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 18 2011, 01:45

Socurges on the other hand should never carry anything other than heat lances or haywire blasters. You can get Dark Lances and Blasters in so many other, better places, but those HLs and HWs are hard to come by.
Back to top Go down
thecactusman17
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 51
Join date : 2011-09-27

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 08:35

@Mr Believer wrote:
Scourges with dark lances "working" in a list might be the wrong term to use here. Perhaps more a case of Scourges with dark lances being there because you haven't got enough lances across the rest of your choices, and they're a good way of getting a couple, or four in a full squad.

Actually, Scourges with Lances were the only special weapon available to the unit in the previous codex edition. Per policy, they made the models compatible with the new codex.

Lucky us, there are better options for Dark Lances on infantry in this edition: clip the barrels off and play as blasters! The body and mid-barrel is just a beefed up version of the Blaster, should be an easy counts-as that's immediately obvious to most people.

The only reason players should seriously consider a Dark Lance in the 5e Dark Eldar codex is if you are running a gunline army or unit of Dark Eldar. And frankly, if you are playing an army of gunline Dark Eldar then something is terribly wrong with your strategy. Even without vehicles, Dark Eldar rely on mobility to win the day. Models that cannot move and attack are models that are generally letting the rest of the unit down.
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 20:42

Scourges could also take Splinter Rifles back in the old dex.

_________________
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? K93hWhs
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
Talos
Kabalite Warrior
Talos

Posts : 166
Join date : 2011-09-15
Location : Malmö

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 21 2011, 12:55

And splintercannons, loads of splinter cannons. And splitercannons was s4 back in those days.
Back to top Go down
http://www.olasart.se
Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 21 2011, 13:36

Lol, yeah, I meant splinter cannons - mental typo Wink Though they also took splinter rifles...

The S.Cannons were awesome back before the new glancing rules came out - you used to be able to DS in behind a tank and dakka it to death with S.Cannons while all your units sat in vehicles moving 12" and shot anything that came near them. Ah, the glory days.

_________________
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? K93hWhs
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?   Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea? I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Infantry with Dark Lances: Good Idea?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: