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 Razorwing flock spam - its amazing

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Barrywise
Wych
Barrywise

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 05:42

From the Black Library: "Master Haemonculus Bellathonis is sent by his master, the mad Archon Malixian, on an important mission - to retrieve a rare bird for his collection of avians."

Point retracted.

Still don't think that you can call the meta as "moving" if it was never really settled in the first place.
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 05:47

Well, mate, if you don't consider a book every other month different from a unit-destroying FAQ update every other week a different change of pace, mate, then I guess we just don't see eye to eye.

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mynamelegend
Kabalite Warrior
mynamelegend

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 05:49

Oddly, I don't think Malixian actually fielded any of his birds. Even when he went out on a planetary raid to capture even more birds, he just fielded the typical Kabalite Gunboats - he was way too worried and protective of his birbs to risk them in battle.

(This naturally doesn't preclude the idea of an archon that's less... eccentric than Malixian actually USING the damn fowl he spends all his time acquiring, but it's an amusing note nevertheless)
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Barrywise
Wych
Barrywise

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 06:00

Yah man, da problem is. Hobby first, game second innit? Especially when the sport is derived on the concept of luck and dice rolling. Not really "destroying" a unit per se, they're still there, you can still take 'em, they still make 'em. That's not destroyed yeh? Simply lowered your chances of getting the dice ya wanted. Just roll well and all your problems are solved.

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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 06:02

Yeah this game is entirely based around the Gaussian distribution so no, that doesn't hold water.

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Last edited by TeenageAngst on Mon Jul 24 2017, 06:11; edited 1 time in total
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Jimsolo
Dracon
Jimsolo

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 06:07

I think we can quit with the antagonism now, amigo.
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Barrywise
Wych
Barrywise

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 06:09

Understood. My Apologies TA. I wish you a good night. You as well Mr. Solo.

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CptMetal
Trueborn
CptMetal

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 07:13

@TeenageAngst
If you just want to complain, we got a thread for that, *mate*.
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colinsherlow
Hekatrix
colinsherlow

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 07:25

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Max-something the Mad. His entire tower was nothing but birds, he floated on jet boots, he sent the Haemonculus on a special mission to recover some special bird. It was all 100% beastmasters devoted to birds.

I really liked that crazy bird loving SOB! That is what I thought of when I thought about bird spam. But then realized that I don't like to spam too much.

I do love beast packs though

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colinsherlow
Hekatrix
colinsherlow

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 07:30

It is hard to call frequent FAQs meta destroying when 8th ed has only been out for a few weeks. Maybe super spamming should be approached with caution. Because suoer spammed units are usually spammed for a reason. So an errata might ruin that sooner than later now.

Which I am totally ok with.

I want to try an army with 60-80 scourges really bad. But I don't exactly think they are meta breaking so that probably wouldn't be a problem... or would it?... no probably not

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TeenageAngst
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TeenageAngst

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 07:32

Yeah because people were going nuts with spamming the VSG right? No, they make random units completely worthless.

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Britishgrotesque
Hellion
Britishgrotesque

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 07:43

Razorwing flock spam was doomed from the very beginning. It was obviously not as intended.


Anyone who bought razorwings did so at their own risk. I am extremely pleased they got rid of it.

These FAQ changes are great, yes it's more reading and keeping up with the hobby, yes it'll ruin some peoples tournament plans, but the more they tweek now before our codex comes out, the closer we are to a better release.

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|Meavar
Hekatrix
|Meavar

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 07:48

Teenageangst you yourself mentioned the birds were OP.
You yourself pushed the bird list out there, specifically to break the game and now they do something about it. You are used to a lot of years of little updates  Sure it might be a bit overreacted on their account with the large price increase. But I don't mind. I made a few bird bat conversions for in my army. They mentioned before 8th hit that the price list so they could make easier adjustments. So if something is OP and they do not make enough money of it, they will change it. And they changed more then just the bird list. And as mentioned, better now before the codexes drop then later.
If you purposely try to break their game and bussiness, do not be surprised if they try to take the wind out of your sails.
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TeenageAngst
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TeenageAngst

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 07:48

Umm, the release was a month ago.

I said the birds were OP. I didn't say they needed to be DOUBLED in price. There is a difference between a correction and making a unit completely unusable. No one in their right mind would bring a Razorwing Flock in a game now, they are wasting points.

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Last edited by TeenageAngst on Mon Jul 24 2017, 07:50; edited 1 time in total
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Ikol
Wych
Ikol

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 07:50

@|Meavar wrote:
Teenageangst you yourself mentioned the birds were OP.
You yourself pushed the bird list out there, specifically to break the game and now they do something about it. You are used to a lot of years of little updates  Sure it might be a bit overreacted on their account with the large price increase. But I don't mind. I made a few bird bat conversions for in my army. They mentioned before 8th hit that the price list so they could make easier adjustments. So if something is OP and they do not make enough money of it, they will change it. And they changed more then just the bird list. And as mentioned, better now before the codexes drop then later.
If you purposely try to break their game and bussiness, do not be surprised if they try to take the wind out of your sails.

... Do you have a point you'd like to raise..?

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|Meavar
Hekatrix
|Meavar

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 08:15

The last sentence.
If you purposely try to break their game and bussiness, do not be surprised if they try to take the wind out of your sails.

Teenageangst multiple times mentioned he wanted GW to lose money, his fun comes now from trying to break the game etc. And now he complains his gamebreaking list is already not viable anymore.
While I agree that the pricing is completely over the top right now. when people are actively trying to break a game you get a knee jerk reaction. GW is now actively trying to make all the money you spend on third party stuff useless. While having only a small impact on the people who did not ry to break their game.
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Ikol
Wych
Ikol

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 08:15

Fair.

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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 08:24

I mean I still weaseled thousands of dollars out of their pockets and they didn't nerf it in time for the ATC.

GW may have won in the end but that's a hell of an accomplishment for an angry nerd on the internet.

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mynamelegend
Kabalite Warrior
mynamelegend

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 08:45

By that logic I routinely weasel Burger King out of money by going to McDonalds. You spent your money getting another company's products instead of theirs, that doesn't exactly make you Danny Ocean.
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closecraig
Hellion
closecraig

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 09:01

Changing them to 2-3 attacks but kept at 7 points would've been ideal. Kept them as cheap deep strike protection and frontline nuisances.

10 of them with a beastmaster is 200 points now which is a bit ridiculous for what you get. Again they should've been kept as nuisance / padding units. 14 points has just made them useless and ergo affected Beastmasters. =/

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 09:14

Probably should have kept them to about 10-11 points and halved their attacks, although personally I find them to be better defensively than offensively. I park them on an objective and it takes a lot of effort by my opponent to shift them.

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UlrikTheSlayer
Hellion
UlrikTheSlayer

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 10:08

They should increase Infantery blocks by double cost too and conscripts and orks and tyrannids then ? I think those are more resilient and without any morale issue. Raising one thing is stupid when other things have more or less better effects. This just proves that they have no freaking clue about the game and what they've done. They are so unprofessional and bad at their own game...


Last edited by UlrikTheSlayer on Mon Jul 24 2017, 10:18; edited 1 time in total
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amishprn86
Archon
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 10:09

Well the Nids and Necron swarms are 12-13 pts, they also get S/T3 but 3 and 4 attacks.

We get S/T2 but 8 attacks, and now 1pt more.

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 10:20

Scarabs are 2" slower, hit more often, are stronger and tougher with an actual armour save and high Ld. Razorwings are faster though, have a ridiculous quantity of attacks and can FLY. Overall I don't think the 14 points is too far over the top if you're just taking a few units but you wouldn't want to have an entire army of them anymore, so GW has probably done a reasonable job balancing them out.

Incidentally, Canoptek Scarabs' Feeder Manidbles have the rules that poison weapons ought to have, ie they have a S value and wound anything with T higher than that S on a fixed value. It means their poison is actually useful against weaker models as well as tougher ones!

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Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 YhBv3Wk
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UlrikTheSlayer
Hellion
UlrikTheSlayer

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Razorwing flock spam - its amazing - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 10:32

The difference is huge dude. T3/S3 on Razorwing would be okay then. But with S2 and 5+ to hit you are like doing nothing to anything
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