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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 16:44

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/23/updated-faqs-and-boots-on-the-groundgw-homepage-post-2/

Thread about it is:
https://www.thedarkcity.net/t16029-faq-updates#193324
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 19:56

GW seems insistent on replacing my favorite game with cancer and AIDS.

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Jim_the_archon
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 20:04

I'm getting an underlying vice that you don't like this edition
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zergavas
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 20:11

Like how we don't get to spam but 400+ guardsman om the table with 19 CP shooting 1600 shots each round thats okay.

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Our skimmers are armored with wet cardboard, our men are wrapped in tissue paper armor and most of our ICs and special characters live in abject terror at the thought of a Str 6 weapon that can insta-kill them, We are the Dark Eldar Fear us!
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 23:25

This edition is D&D 4e but worse.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 23:32

TeenageAngst wrote:
This edition is D&D 4e but worse.
The ressemblance is striking indeed. Both games failed when they tried to revamp the system in order to reach a broader audience.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 23:36

I mean bad players like it because it makes them feel like they've improved when all that's happened is it's kept them from bringing legitimately terrible units all the time by making everything the same. Just like 4e made everyone's characters the same. You don't feel bad playing a fighter when the fighter is the exact same thing as a wizard.

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 08:13

CptMetal wrote:
I don´t want to be rude, but does that imply that you will quit this forum too because everything sucks for you and you don´t even see the point in participating here anymore given the fact that you will be soon out of models?

TeenageAngst wrote:
Probably. I know you're overjoyed to hear that.

Well I'm sure as hell not!

If you do end up dropping out of the hobby (and off of the forum), I'll be sad to see you go.

Here's hoping the failboat of GW's design team gets replaced by competent individuals at some point in the near future.

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Arani
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 13:13

Krieg and Elysians..

They needed a buff I'll admit. But hot damn.. they are ridiculously good right now. I haven't been able to beat them yet. With Krieg infantry ignoring morale from shooting, and Elysians getting deepstriking Vultures with twin punisher cannons for only 160pts.. it's a mess.

I'm really bummed that they nerfed the necrotoxin missiles and the flocks. I honestly think it was overkill for how they handled it. Once more the Necrotoxin missiles will never be used, and Flocks will be too pricey for what they do. 14 points for them is just straight dumb. I had a feeling it was coming, but it doesn't make the sting hurt any less.

Thankfully all the FAQ's so far don't really affect narrative play, so I'm just going to stick to that and dodge tournaments or anything even remotely competitive

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zergavas
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 14:44

Is it just me that made a sudden realisation, im an active reader on alot of warhammer groups on FB and other places and it just hit me, It feels like im back playing Leauge of legends again, the community have become so toxic after 8th.

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Our skimmers are armored with wet cardboard, our men are wrapped in tissue paper armor and most of our ICs and special characters live in abject terror at the thought of a Str 6 weapon that can insta-kill them, We are the Dark Eldar Fear us!
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 14:49

zergavas wrote:
Is it just me that made a sudden realisation, im an active reader on alot of warhammer groups on FB and other places and it just hit me, It feels like im back playing Leauge of legends again, the community have become so toxic after 8th.

Some people don´t like change. And some are very vocal about it.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 14:49

I don't think edition had anything to do with it. Change always brings up the worst in the community.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 15:56

Quote :

Is it just me that made a sudden realisation, im an active reader on alot of warhammer groups on FB and other places and it just hit me, It feels like im back playing Leauge of legends again, the community have become so toxic after 8th.

I play League and haven't seen any toxicity. Then again I stay out of comp modes and only play Kayle.

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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 17:39

It seems to me that people that are unhappy about this edition are "good list builders" that think they are good players.  They have always focused on the areas of the rules to try to essentially break the game so that they can win.  Now that GW has taken an active role in trying to prevent this type of list building and trying to force players into taking what they (GW) see is a fair list.  In my opinion this is where the majority of the 8th ed hate is coming from.  There is also a few people upset about the loss of fluff with the armies, but it seems that the majority of the complaining revolves around people trying to break the game to their advantage.

Now that GW is more involved, people will actually have to learn to play the game and I'm excited about that.  I can't tell you how sick and tired I have become of playing people that just sit back in their deployment zone and shoot with their overpowered list that they have developed knowing that there is absolutely nothing their opponent can do about it.  There shouldn't be any type of list that could be brought to a game that is an auto-win. 40k should be 50% list building and 50% tactics.  And by tactics, I mean ACTUAL tactics.  You look through all of the 40k forums and the "Tactics" section is nothing but list building ideas.  

God forbid that GW is trying to give 40k some tactical flavor into what has historically been a pure list building game.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 17:43

Quote :
God forbid that GW is trying to give 40k some tactical flavor into what has historically been a pure list building game.

I'm sorry, but if GW wanted to add more tactical depth, why would they take out firing arcs, vehicle facings, etc.?

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Leninade
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 17:46

Uhhhh... Did you ever play any competitive games? Sure list building was important in 7th, but knowing how to play your army was arguably more important. Very few armies could just sit back in their deployment zone, and of the ones that could, wouldn't be particularly successful unless they were backed up by mobile troops to grab objectives.

Sad to hear that you're getting out of the hobby, TA. Hopefully you decide not to sell off your sisters and DE. You never know, the game could move in an unexpected direction.
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PartZebra
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 17:48

[quote="TeenageAngst"]
Quote :

I play League and haven't seen any toxicity. Then again I stay out of comp modes and only play Kayle.

Bruh who do you play with?! I'm as casual as casual can be and I'd float on the amount of salty tears that fill that game were it not toxic to my health...

...Wait was I talking about LoL or 40k? Someone remind me!

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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 17:59

Firing arcs and vehicle facings aren't inherent features of a high strategy game any more than dice in a game of chess.

The rules have changed and so have the winning tactics
They'll continue to change with a living rulebook, but they're there. The fine content of them just isn't the same as what it was 6 months ago.
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Archon_91
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 18:24

Either ... And honestly I feel a lot of these changes are because of some space Marine players complaining to get that they are facing stuff that is way to strong ... Already had a couple say that our 5++ against shooting on our vehicles is massively op and it took a good 20 minutes of pointing out weaknesses for him to realize it is balanced and not something so rediculous strong that he had no chance of winning, also I'm sure if enough DE players raised hell on GW's Facebook page they will more then likely realize that their player base isn't 90% space Marine and chaos space Marine players.
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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 18:52

TheBaconPope wrote:
I'm sorry, but if GW wanted to add more tactical depth, why would they take out firing arcs, vehicle facings, etc.?

I agree, removing firing arcs on vehicles was a poor choice by GW, it doesn't mean that there is any less tactics involved.  You still need to move yourself into position to target the unit you want to shoot.  s there terrain that you can get into that provides a cover save, but still get shots off on the target? etc.  

There's also more strategy on the defending side as well.  Trying to avoid being shot at by a vehicle with no firing arcs is certainly something that you have to plan your turns around.

I will admit, that no firing arcs has lead to less tactical gameplay.  There's no thought required when moving your flier around the board now.  In previous editions, you would have to plan your movement 3-4 turn ahead to maximize shots on the unit you wanted to shoot.

Leninade wrote:
Uhhhh... Did you ever play any competitive games? Sure list building was important in 7th, but knowing how to play your army was arguably more important. Very few armies could just sit back in their deployment zone, and of the ones that could, wouldn't be particularly successful unless they were backed up by mobile troops to grab objectives.

Yes I did play competitive games.  Yeah I was exaggerating a bit, but my point is still valid.  You can't argue the fact that some armies were SO overpowered that a 2 year old could pull off some wins.  And I'm not saying that 7th didn't require tactics, all I'm saying is that 9 times out of 10, the guy that brought the cheese would win, regardless of who the better player actually was.  And that is what I'm hoping GW is trying to fix with 8th.  I'm just hoping that they get there.


Last edited by merse24 on Mon Jul 24 2017, 19:19; edited 1 time in total
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 18:54

Problem is, the Dark Eldar attract a much different type of person than a lot of the other factions do. I'm not saying that we're all the same person, but more often than not, I find our fellow archons to be the type to laugh at the silly antics of the mon'keigh as we wait out the storm in the webway.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 19:30

Following is meant as a joke:
@Barrywise - you mean even more asocial people with inclination towards tyranny, debauchery and sadism? Very Happy
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 24 2017, 20:35

I've run top shelf armies and I've run bad armies and I've done well with the latter and bad with the former. I've schooled people who thought they had the game in the bag and developed tools to work around weaknesses to the point people said my DE were broken in 7th. Tactics is essential to any list but listbuilding is crucial too. You NEED a strategy and it must be well thought out and properly supported to win in high level play. My personal favorite was 2 grotesqueries mixed with a CAD for support. I used 16 Grotesques, spam by any measure, but it worked and it surprised people and you HAD to run that list well for it to work at all. If I did something like that today and won a tournament you could expect 80 point Grotesques a few weeks later. That is punishing people for being creative within their limitations.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 25 2017, 01:54

I agree with your premise, but I reject your conclusion.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 25 2017, 02:00

aurynn wrote:
Following is meant as a joke:
@Barrywise - you mean even more asocial people with inclination towards tyranny, debauchery and sadism? Very Happy


Twisted Evil But of course! To err is to be human but to commit acts of tyranny, debauchery and sadism? Here there be dragons Dark Eldar.
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