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 rant about GW and play testers

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zergavas
Kabalite Warrior
zergavas


Posts : 131
Join date : 2012-04-06
Location : Sweden

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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 09:38

Id rather have angst and betrayer here than all the new blood.

_________________
Our skimmers are armored with wet cardboard, our men are wrapped in tissue paper armor and most of our ICs and special characters live in abject terror at the thought of a Str 6 weapon that can insta-kill them, We are the Dark Eldar Fear us!
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The Shredder
Trueborn
The Shredder


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 10:03

TeenageAngst wrote:
Over the past few weeks I've had a serious sit down and think about where I'm at in the hobby now. I had this same thought back in February when I was considering getting out of the hobby when I was disappointed with the direction the Gathering Storm II book was taking the story, and now it's kind of solidified into my own personal worst case scenario. I literally get nothing out of the hobby anymore. From a gameplay aspect, 8th edition is disappointing to say the least. It took a deep and interesting system and reduced it to a skeleton, rife with ridiculous rules such as tanks shooting from antennas while facing backwards, flyers dying when they move off the board, and being able to take 200+ Razorwing Flocks in a single battleforged list. There were positive changes for sure but nothing that couldn't have been added to 7th edition to make it more streamlined. Instead we have a transition that's about as smooth as going from third gear to reverse in a car with bad synchros.

Then there's the narrative aspect. I can handle bad gameplay if I at least enjoy the lore, but 8th edition ushered in a new wave of flanderized "even grim-darker-er" story progression that's just boring to read. I have literally no interest in the hand being pushed even closer to midnight by things like the Eye of Terror now being as big as the entire galaxy or Cadia blowing up or whatever. It just smacks of them running out of ideas so they blew the world up again, like a 12 year old DMing a game of D&D. And because of this, my narratives are all shot to hell. My Biel-Tan army is worthless. It's just gone, there's no reason to ever bring it off the shelf again. The units in it are sub-par even by the paltry offerings for the Craftworld Eldar in this edition and the narrative was demolished so hard you'd think there was an insurance fraud case involved. My Dark Eldar didn't fare much better, and my Sisters of Battle might as well never leave the shelf either. It's impossible to play with them now, literally, since I'm not allowed to play with multiple factions anymore. I have maybe, if I stretch, 500 points of Sisters. That does not an army make. They were meant to supplement my Dark Eldar, I even gave them lore for such, and now they can't. In fact all my coolest models are practically worthless. My two heavily converted Dark Eldar Wraithknights that I spent over a month working on are trash. Eddie my Talos, Kyle my Razorwing Jetfighter pilot, my converted Jetseer and her escorts, all useless now. I mean yes I could technically use them if I felt like pouring points down the sink but that sucks even more fun out of the game. Hell, I can't even run my Yvraine that I modeled as a Harlequin with my action Harlequins unless I run my clowns as Ynnari!

Which brings me to the hobby aspect. What motivation do I have to spend time on the hobby aspect when the lore and the gameplay are so terrible to me? Why should I invest myself into making my Howling Banshees as unique and interesting as I imagined them to be when how I imagined them no longer functions within the world they're supposed to be a part of? Why should I go through the effort of converting each and every Bloodbride for Lelith's retinue when she's part of a faction I can't stand now? I tried painting a few models recently and they all came out looking like a sloppy rush job because that's exactly what they were. I just didn't care, and I couldn't make myself care because there was nothing left for me to hang on to other than playing in tournaments and winning. So as it stands I have boxes of Zombicide crows sitting on a shelf behind me, still in shrink wrap in case I have to send them back to Amazon if an errata is released between now and the NOVA GT. That is my sole focus in my collection and army now. A bunch of cheap plastic 3rd party birds.

"TA just find people to play 7th with then, or people who are okay with you bringing your Sisters or whatever along." Yeah those conversations tend to go like this:

"Hey, can we play 7th?"

"No, 8th is way better."

"Okay, then can I run unbound? I wanna use my Sisters of Battle."

"I mean, I would be more comfortable if we stayed battle-forged."

"Oookay, then can we use the Death from the Skies rules?"

"Death from the Skies is garbage, let's just use the basic rules."

"**** IT, OKAY FINE." And then I dump a box of birds on the table and pretend to have fun for 2 hours.

And of course when I mention any of this on facebook the answer is universally "lol u mad dawg just sell me ur army k" to which I answer, I am.

No really, I'm selling my 40k stuff. This is the first time since I started playing 40k that my collection has been actively shrinking. Since 8th was announced I haven't bought a single GW model. Every week I auction off like 5 units on ebay. I'm not gonna sell it in one big lump, I'm not a moron, I gotta get at least some of my money back. But for about a month now I've been hocking old models, sprues of things I know I'll never build, and a 3000 point 4th edition Tau army I've had laying around forever. The thing is, with the exception of the Tau, I liked these armies. I liked their lore, their models, their playstyles. This doesn't feel like a choice I made because of a natural disinterest over time like it did with World of Warcraft. I used to be into that game as much as I was 40k but as expansions released I just slowly drifted away. 40k however I was totally into and then overnight it was like someone took away my favorite game and replaced it with something completely different. I'm selling models not because "oh well I guess I'm not getting back into that" but I can't stand to look at them anymore. They're constantly reminding me of the fun I used to have with the game and can no longer. All I have left to have fun with is a bunch of stupid birds and whatever novel broken concepts I can come up with as more codexes are released. I don't like selling this much of my collection, but I also don't like the new direction the game is headed, and I'd rather have money and be sad than not have money and still be sad.

tl;dr: I've been slowly selling my armies off because there is nothing left in this hobby for me beyond spamming birds and winning.

Sorry you feel that way. It seems a real shame, given that you clearly invested a great deal of thought and effort into your armies and their lore.

I am intrigued about one thing - what was the fluff you came up with for the alliance of SoB with Dark Eldar?

Anyway, with regard to selling your armies, might it be worth holding off? Maybe just box them up for a while out of sight? I know it's painful now but selling them could well be worse down the line. dakkadakka recently had a thread asking people what their biggest regrets were for 40k. An awful lot of them were people who'd sold their armies and now deeply regretted it. I'd hate for you to make the same mistake.

Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best. Smile
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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
FuelDrop


Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 10:38

The lack of flavor has driven me from my Dark Eldar. Frankly I prefer them. I have a large Wych cult (40 models, including some dating back to 3rd edition) and a similarly large and vintage force of Kabalite Warriors. There is little flavor left in them, so I am going back to my Uthwe army which at least has something interesting about it. Sad
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Jim_the_archon
Hellion
Jim_the_archon


Posts : 53
Join date : 2017-01-30
Location : England

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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 10:40

I find the dark eldar in this edition more interesting than any imperial army I have, I've pretty much abandoned my grey knights and space marines
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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
FuelDrop


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 11:08

Jim_the_archon wrote:
I find the dark eldar in this edition more interesting than any imperial army I have, I've pretty much abandoned my grey knights and space marines

While this is true, Marines have always been kinda bland. And they'll be phased out for Primerus marines soon enough.
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The Shredder
Trueborn
The Shredder


Posts : 2970
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 11:22

Jim_the_archon wrote:
I find the dark eldar in this edition more interesting than any imperial army I have, I've pretty much abandoned my grey knights and space marines

I'm actually of the opposite opinion - I find DE (and our characters especially) to be one of the least interesting in 8th.

I'm finding my IG and Necrons far more fun and interesting.

But each to his own.
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CptMetal
Dracon
CptMetal


Posts : 3069
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 11:43

Fluff wise I think dark Eldar are one of the most interesting factions. Even the fluff for your Kabal. You can make up crazy and cool stories and They don't sound silly because we are f***** evil space elves with Technology bordering on magic. And we got real issues. Line
Like the vampires in the masquerade. Like a dark spiral.
But I do agree that just looking at the options, our HQs are really bland. I'm hoping for the codex to fix that.
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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
FuelDrop


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 11:46

When you think about it our weapon options are rather bland too.

We have Darklight and Splinter weapons, plus a bunch of one-offs. Melee wise, outside of Covens our general weapons list is really pathetic. Which is a bad thing for an army with two branches out of 3 dedicated to melee.
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The Shredder
Trueborn
The Shredder


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 11:55

CptMetal wrote:
Fluff wise I think dark Eldar are one of the most interesting factions. Even the fluff for your Kabal. You can make up crazy and cool stories and They don't sound silly because we are f***** evil space elves with Technology bordering on magic. And we got real issues. Line
Like the vampires in the masquerade. Like a dark spiral.
But I do agree that just looking at the options, our HQs are really bland. I'm hoping for the codex to fix that.

Yeah, the fluff is great. We also have some fantastic models. It's just the mechanics side that's leaving me dissatisfied at the moment.

As you say, hopefully the codex will give us more stuff to work with. Smile
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 16:54

Quote :

I am intrigued about one thing - what was the fluff you came up with for the alliance of SoB with Dark Eldar?

They were the remnants of a small force that was captured, drugged, and enslaved. Their Sister Superior is actually a Beastmaster model.

Quote :
Anyway, with regard to selling your armies, might it be worth holding off? Maybe just box them up for a while out of sight?

I mean, I could, but what are the chances our lore is going to get better or the game will progress beyond the depth of a spoon?
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CptMetal
Dracon
CptMetal


Posts : 3069
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 17:18

I actually like our lore. We have more depth then most of the armies.
Heroic brave heroes
Religious fanatics
Mindless omnomnom things

We have a twist. A dark fate. We fell and we are forced to cope with our curse and every Kabal can use its own technic to survive with a technology bordering magic. So let your imagination run free. Create something.
Soul thieves? Slave raiders? Merchants of obscure stuff that we are trading in the dark city?
That's fine and more than a guard or marine player can do.
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The Shredder
Trueborn
The Shredder


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 17:27

TeenageAngst wrote:

They were the remnants of a small force that was captured, drugged, and enslaved. Their Sister Superior is actually a Beastmaster model.

Ah, I see. I rather like that idea. The idea of the Sister Superior being a Beastmaster is wonderful. Twisted Evil

Somewhat amusingly, I have an appropriate model for that alliance:

The Living Sinner:

Anyway, it is a shame that the players at your club aren't willing to make an exception for a fun concept like his.

TeenageAngst wrote:
I mean, I could, but what are the chances our lore is going to get better or the game will progress beyond the depth of a spoon?

Are you sure you wouldn't rather ask someone less cynical? Wink

Anyway, I'm doubtful that the fluff will improve significantly in the near future (though, honestly, I think ours is already at the higher end in terms of quality). On the other hand, it can take just one good piece of fluff to capture your imagination. And, while I appreciate that it's far from an ideal solution, you could largely ignore the new fluff and make up your own as much as possible.

In any case, even if the fluff doesn't improve, it's still very possible that your other players will. You might still be able to find some players or groups that are more open to playing 7th, or even just playing Unbound 8th so that you can use your DE/SoB army.

If nothing else, might it be worth waiting for the DE/Eldar codices to drop? You know that I'm about as far from the 'the codex will fix everything bandwagon' as it's possible to get, but it's possible that they'll fix enough to at least let you get some enjoyment out of your armies.

At the end of the day it's your army and your decision. I just think it's the sort of thing that might seem reasonable now but which you could well end up deeply regretting later on.
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The Strange Dark One
Wych
The Strange Dark One


Posts : 875
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Location : Private subrealm of the Eldritch Skies Kabal.

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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 17:32

TeenageAngst wrote:
...
I mean, I could, but what are the chances our lore is going to get better or the game will progress beyond the depth of a spoon?

Nobody knows how 40k will evolve. I can really understand your motivations and it might be that from here everything just goes downhill even further.
However, there might also be a big rebalancing with new mechanics that stop spam and make the game much more enjoyable than it was with 7th.

Honestly, nobody knows how 40k will evolve. But either way, how could it hurt if you just pause the hobby for some time, spend your focus on other things and maybe return in a year or so?

If you return in a year and it still sucks you are free to tell everybody that you were right all along, but if you sold your stuff and they brought 40k to a playable level the joke's on you.
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 20:08

I mean considering I'm clearing a profit on almost everything I'm selling... yeah. I buy smart and I sell smart.

Also my 40k game has devolved to the same point my AoS game has. Just a field of unpainted plastic spamming a broken strategy. People insist on 8th edition and battleforged armies, so I bring birds, and then they complain about birds. I can't win.
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CptMetal
Dracon
CptMetal


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 21:16

Do you got some pictures of your converted sisters to match your fluff?
Some kind of device on each of them or whatever?
I'm glad you make a profit with all your stuff. So I assume you bought your miniatures cheap from eBay? Otherwise it's very nearly impossible to make a profit.
Congrats.
But I'm Really curious in seeing your converted miniatures. (No irony or joke on my part)
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Mppqlmd
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 21:27

CptMetal wrote:

I'm glad you make a profit with all your stuff. So I assume you bought your miniatures cheap from eBay? Otherwise it's very nearly impossible to make a profit.
Congrats.
Selling the sprue helps. Also i have experienced many festivals (Made in Asia, Japan Expo, Trolls&Legends in France and Belgium) where GW had a stand, and offered a -15 bucks discount on everything (they mostly had starter box, special games boxes, and start collecting). I would recommend checking those out, as you can save a lot of money (or even make some) that way.
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CptMetal
Dracon
CptMetal


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 22:03

I thought he sold his painted and / or assembled miniatures.
Selling sprues might work to make a profit but I don't need that. I got a job. I thought he was talking about selling his pro painted or converted miniatures.
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 23:24

I'm selling my models in order of least to most used. In this case, Tau and untouched sprues I got for cheap. I haven't sold anything painted yet except for a very nicely done Commander Shadowsun.

_________________
Really terrible videos about tiny plastic space elfs intended to help you get gud scrub:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcZP8WGIhte5TmCWQXsZO4A

Flawless pieces of literary perfection:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/2805979/
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The Shredder
Trueborn
The Shredder


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 22 2017, 23:46

If you have any converted sisters models, I'd also like to see them.
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 02:49

The only converted model I have on hand is a Wraithknight I used a Sister for.

rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 20170710

_________________
Really terrible videos about tiny plastic space elfs intended to help you get gud scrub:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcZP8WGIhte5TmCWQXsZO4A

Flawless pieces of literary perfection:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/2805979/
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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
FuelDrop


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 02:52

You are very good at conversions btw TA.
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 04:42

Thank you. That Wraithknight is actually chinaforged. When I got it the resin was all jacked up so I knew it wouldn't be smooth. So I used some extra Talos and Raider bits, lots of green stuff, and painted it in a way to try and distract from the messy resin. The Sister is an extra bit from a Penitent Engine that I figured would make a nice second pilot for a Dark Eldar Wraithknight. I haven't fielded it since 8th edition dropped though because it's completely useless now.

_________________
Really terrible videos about tiny plastic space elfs intended to help you get gud scrub:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcZP8WGIhte5TmCWQXsZO4A

Flawless pieces of literary perfection:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/2805979/
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aurynn
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 16:21

TeenageAngst wrote:
That Wraithknight is actually chinaforged.
Oh THAT means buying smart... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

I guess I am pretty dumb then. Very Happy
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zergavas
Kabalite Warrior
zergavas


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 16:31

Well they just dubbled the cost of flocks and a minimum of 3 per unit now.

_________________
Our skimmers are armored with wet cardboard, our men are wrapped in tissue paper armor and most of our ICs and special characters live in abject terror at the thought of a Str 6 weapon that can insta-kill them, We are the Dark Eldar Fear us!
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The Shredder
Trueborn
The Shredder


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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    rant about GW and play testers  - Page 12 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 23 2017, 16:35

TeenageAngst wrote:
The only converted model I have on hand is a Wraithknight I used a Sister for.

Spoiler:

I love the wings and halo on that. Great work. Very Happy

zergavas wrote:
Well they just dubbled the cost of flocks and a minimum of 3 per unit now.

Oh, has there been a new faq?
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