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Gherma
Kabalite Warrior
Gherma

Posts : 235
Join date : 2012-12-10
Location : London, UK

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 22:03

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
@Gherma wrote:
I spent a lot of time today going through the new index and I have to say that in my opinion, excluding a couple of very poor choices (talos?), it's not particularly sub par. I went through the rules of all the armies that I have/know well, and I all of them I could find really disappointing elements. Just to highlight a couple:

ELDAR
- Windriders went from 3+ to 4+
- farseers powers are a lot less interesting
- scatter laser is a lot less useful now that vehicles have an armour save
- all the move shot move lost forever

DARK ANGEL
- no more jink bonanza on bikes
- DW knights went from T5 to T4
- no more DW special rules
- Azrael still awfully overcosted and pretty useless

So I think the problem here is not the dark eldar codex, it's just a completely tasteless / bland edition of the game

Do you know if jink as a universal rule is gone? I didn't notice it mentioned once for Dark Eldar.

Jink is gone. Dark Angels have it as a special rule (5++) but just for flyers and darkshroud. No more jinxing for normal bikes and skimmers. We were "lucky" all our ones got 5++

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Talos
Kabalite Warrior
Talos

Posts : 163
Join date : 2011-09-15
Location : Malmö

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 22:04

Some other nice things I found reading through the space marines rules.

Deep striking flamers can no longer burn are passengers. They can’t even fire the same turn they arrive.

Grav weapons are mehhe against dark elder (there nice bonus only happens if you have a 3+ save)

Drop pods actually cost pts now

marines with cc weapons (chainsords) have no bolters

Bikes are expensive, and melts then our disintegrator cannons open fire
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst

Posts : 1846
Join date : 2016-08-29

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 22:10

With these awful mechanics I'm probably only going to play competitively. There's no reason to invest myself outside of tournaments if the fluff and the narrative aspects are all turned inside out and the actual gameplay is extremely limited.

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CurstAlchemist
Wych
CurstAlchemist

Posts : 915
Join date : 2015-05-01

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 22:15

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
There are some things I am getting frustrated with already and thats most squads being minimum 5 models meaning a HQ choice can't join them on a venom.

Under the rules for Battle Forged Armies, Understrength units, you will see rules allowing you to take a unit of less than minimum strength but must pay the point cost for that missing man/men.
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Dark Elf Dave
Wych
Dark Elf Dave

Posts : 509
Join date : 2017-05-19

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 22:32

@CurstAlchemist wrote:
@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
There are some things I am getting frustrated with already and thats most squads being minimum 5 models meaning a HQ choice can't join them on a venom.

Under the rules for Battle Forged Armies, Understrength units, you will see rules allowing you to take a unit of less than minimum strength but must pay the point cost for that missing man/men.

Thank you that is so helpful to know that...so I still other options hmmm
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Dark Elf Dave
Wych
Dark Elf Dave

Posts : 509
Join date : 2017-05-19

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 22:35

And jink is gone, replaced with invul saves on everything except the Reavers. Got it.
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Gherma
Kabalite Warrior
Gherma

Posts : 235
Join date : 2012-12-10
Location : London, UK

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 22:38

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
And jink is gone, replaced with invul saves on everything except the Reavers. Got it.

Not strictly... I think no bike in the game has it now

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Scrz
Sybarite
Scrz

Posts : 372
Join date : 2015-01-23

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 22:54

@Vathek wrote:
I'm just curious as to why the light and fast raider is slower than the eldars transport options
Because anything we can do CWE can do better. It is as good as official GW policy.
Heck they even gave our webway gimmick to the CWE rangers.

And I noticed our warriors did not get back the grenades GW stole from them last dex. When they tried to buff wyches as a CC option by nerfing the warriors ability to charge instead of making wyches better. Even though warriors have grenades on the actual models. All the CWE cats still have their grenades of course.
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Imateria
Wych
Imateria

Posts : 510
Join date : 2016-02-06
Location : Birmingham

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 23:29

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
@CurstAlchemist wrote:
@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
There are some things I am getting frustrated with already and thats most squads being minimum 5 models meaning a HQ choice can't join them on a venom.

Under the rules for Battle Forged Armies, Understrength units, you will see rules allowing you to take a unit of less than minimum strength but must pay the point cost for that missing man/men.

Thank you that is so helpful to know that...so I still other options hmmm
I wouldn't be so sure, chances are that just applies to the narative Power Level points where you buy models in blocks rather than with the more granular points system.
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CurstAlchemist
Wych
CurstAlchemist

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 00:34

@Imateria wrote:
I wouldn't be so sure, chances are that just applies to the narative Power Level points where you buy models in blocks rather than with the more granular points system.

The rules actually states: "If you are using points, you must still pay the point costs as if you had a minimum-sized unit, even though it contains fewer models. An understrength unit still takes up the appropriate slot in a detachment."

That is quoted directly from a picture of the hard bound rulebook, on page 242.
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organicpesticide
Hellion
organicpesticide

Posts : 45
Join date : 2013-09-03
Location : SoCal

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 00:37

Talos with twin haywire, twin heatlance or twin SC, and msu Wrack squads with ossefactor+hexrifle, seems pretty good.
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Eldur
Sybarite
Eldur

Posts : 267
Join date : 2011-12-08

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 01:14

Humm... Hydra gauntlets reroll to wound even against vehicles. It won't make you win, but it's good to know.

+1Toughness bubbles for Covens, reroll hits bubbles for Archon courts, Incubi with Drazhar and wyches with succubi and Lelith (now on drugs). Whole army power from pain super cumulative bubble. Yeah, keep crying.

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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 01:14

So evidently we can't mix and match factions. An entire army must share a keyword in matched play.

o_o

There go my sisters.

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Leninade
Kabalite Warrior
Leninade

Posts : 102
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 01:16

Imperium is a keyword
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst

Posts : 1846
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 01:17

@Leninade wrote:
Imperium is a keyword

I used to run my Sisters of Battle with my Dark Eldar in an allied detachment.

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TheBaconPope
Wych
TheBaconPope

Posts : 710
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 01:28

What I'm most upset at is that in the "age of flamers" our total number of autohit weapons has actually  fallen. The eyeburst has been relegated to a simple assault 4 weapon, which leaves us with the Spirit Syphon and Liquifier Gun. So it looks like Covens are our sole flame bearers. Not to mention that the Liquifier is still S3, and the Spirit Syphon also S3 and limited to a single model.

I was praying that the poor poor shredder would get changed to our version of a flamer, but to actually limit our access to this purported critical game changing weapon even further is just a slap in the face.

Honestly, is there any army out there with less access to templates than we do?

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Leninade
Kabalite Warrior
Leninade

Posts : 102
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 01:31

Templates were great because they weren't subject to the fickle whims of the dice gods, now that's gone it doesn't really matter anymore.
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Bibitybopitybacon
Wych
Bibitybopitybacon

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 01:46

I'm curious. Do we know if Wyches get their 4++ against pistols fired into combat? In guessing not since it says they get 4++ in the fight phase. That alone might make them unviable.
Also, is there any real reason to take 1 unit of 10 Wyches when 2 units of 5 can ride in a raider? The hekatrix is free, the agonizer is cheap and you get two grenades to throw.
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SaturdayNightWrist
Hellion
SaturdayNightWrist

Posts : 45
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 02:08

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

Also, is there any real reason to take 1 unit of 10 Wyches when 2 units of 5 can ride in a raider? The hekatrix is free, the agonizer is cheap and you get two grenades to throw.

I guess the only downside to units of five is you could potentially lose a good portion of the unit to a failed moral test.
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Faitherun
Sybarite
Faitherun

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 03:57

Eh - I think you'd lose less. Morale is 2d6 - (LD-casualties). Therefore a larger squad can lose more models, thereby having a lower LD
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Massaen
Klaivex
Massaen

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 04:39

its 1d6 - not 2d6

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Faitherun
Sybarite
Faitherun

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 04:45

True - my bad.

But the end result is the same. It's (d6+# of dead) - LD

With a unit of 5, and a LD of 7, we have to lose 2 models and roll a 6 to lose one more... at losing 4 models the chances of losing more greatly increases - on 4+ we lose the last one! But only one. In a unit of 10, after having lost 4 wyches, a 4 sees us losing one, while a 5 or 6 sees another 2 or 3 die.

Two units of 5 makes more sense to me...
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CptMetal
Trueborn
CptMetal

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 05:23

Iirc you get one special weapon for every 3 girls. So going 2x 5 gives you less of them.
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Xivai
Hellion
Xivai

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 05:43

Your all a lot luckier than Tau. The Necrons have a unit that is basically better than the crisis in every way and costs a third less. Destroyer's are going to end Tau lists and Wraiths let alone the BS 2+ warriors with an invul save from the leaders and the rest of his army.

On ATT the situation and agreement is that the codex is in extremely dire straights. The only unit we can claim is better than any other option in any other dex is the Vespid. The little humble vespid. All our hopes rest on you little guys. We're doomed.

I hate the frontline gaming people so much. Reece and Frankie hated Tau and always complained they were way too strong in every way. Now we can't do anything. Great.
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Massaen
Klaivex
Massaen

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 01 2017, 05:50

Seriously?!? Tau had it cheap and great for 2 solid editions of the game and they still have plenty of good options - drones are amazing just for starters.

The trick is tau points are now in line with everyone else (seriously - riptides have been way to cheap for a while now) along with the rebalances to rules to EVERY FACTION has players losing their crap.

Play some games and then make the call. You will almost certainly have to change the way you play as the game is different!

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