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Dark Elf Dave
Wych
Dark Elf Dave

Posts : 509
Join date : 2017-05-19

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 18:47

@CptMetal wrote:
@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
@Khayyin wrote:
And I don't understand why windrider cost 20ppm whereas the reaver costs 30 ppm. They are practically identical statwise, they just have +1A.

I don't know if drugs and pfp is worth the discrepancy.

Seriously?  Drugs and PFP are worth a lot to the Reavers.

Choose +1T on the drugs chart and you have a T5 W2 super fast unit that has an extra 6+ save and on turn 2 re-rolls charge distance...which I will give Heat Lances and Grav Talons and go hunting independent characters for lots of fun.

That is a great idea!

Too bad we can only give one unit T+1 reliably but I guess the other ones would be worth it too.

How many would you use?

6 Reavers
Agoniser
2x Heat Lance
2x Grav Talon

244 points

Its viable, it might not be everyones flavour, but I will defo try this build out.
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Jimsolo
Dracon
Jimsolo

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 19:00

Am I on drugs, or did Hellglaives get WAY better?
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CptMetal
Trueborn
CptMetal

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 19:01

I´m not sure that the grav talon is good but it´s only 5 points. The agonizer on the other hand.
Just take 3 reavers with a grav talon and a heat lance and you´re good to go with 115 points.
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Rusty293
Hellion
avatar

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 19:27

The thing to remember guys is that this isn't supposed to be a codex update. It's something to make the army is usable in 8th edition. They released something similar called ravening hordes in the change from 5th to 6th edition warhammer fantasy as the massive changes to the game system invalidated all the army books at once. If you look at the differences beteeen the stop gap lists in that and the eventual army books each army got in 6th edition fantasy you'll see they were massive. Now as long as we don't end up like the Wood Elves who didn't get a codex release until 7th edition of that game we'll be fine (eeeep....)
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ricorongen
Hellion
ricorongen

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 19:31

as long as we are playable and fun i dont care =/ really i dont just am afraid we get another 7ed feeling of us being the weaker eldar.

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Dark Elf Dave
Wych
Dark Elf Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 19:32

@CptMetal wrote:
I´m not sure that the grav talon is good but it´s only 5 points. The agonizer on the other hand.
Just take 3 reavers with a grav talon and a heat lance and you´re good to go with 115 points.

I was gutted when I first read the rules for Reavers because Caltrops got nerfed. Their rules have also been sort of swapped to grav talons now but with far less hits...but at 5 points each with a 50% chance of a mortal wound on the charge then I think why not.

I agree the agoniser isn't 100% needed but at 4 points for either an Agoniser or Power Sword, considering I will pay for the grave talons meaning a charge will happen...against Marines I might want it I guess.

I am just really liking being able to choose the drugs...I just wish more units had access to them. Im thinking +1T for bikes and +1S for Wyches.
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Dark Elf Dave
Wych
Dark Elf Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:01

Just thought of another build...for holding objectives perhaps.

5 Wracks, with X2 Liquifier Guns

Haemonculus with Liquifier Gun

Keep them close together. The Wracks are now T5 with the Haem buff, 5+ Invul as well as their 6+ PFP. Watch assault units charge them being auto hit by 3D6 shots.

Question...does cover only provide +1 to armour save regardless of what type of cover it is?
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zbardekz
Slave
zbardekz

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:05



I read somewhere that every kind of cover gives just a plain +1
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Skulnbonz
Wych
Skulnbonz

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:06

@Jimsolo wrote:
Am I on drugs, or did Hellglaives get WAY better?

One of the hidden gems in the codex to be sure.

As for drugs:

20 hellions- +1 Strength (now hitting at str 5!)

reavers- +1 toughness, as they will benefit the most from it

Wyches- +1 A, ws etc...

Also, anyone else notice Lelith has combat drugs now?

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Faitherun
Sybarite
Faitherun

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:07

Do ynnari armies still get drugs?
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
TeenageAngst

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:30

Where does it say Lelith has combat drugs

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CurstAlchemist
Wych
CurstAlchemist

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:32

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Where does it say Lelith has combat drugs

Under abilities next to Power from Pain.
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Red Corsair
Kabalite Warrior
Red Corsair

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:37

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
Just thought of another build...for holding objectives perhaps.

5 Wracks, with X2 Liquifier Guns

Haemonculus with Liquifier Gun

Keep them close together. The Wracks are now T5 with the Haem buff, 5+ Invul as well as their 6+ PFP.  Watch assault units charge them being auto hit by 3D6 shots.

Question...does cover only provide +1 to armour save regardless of what type of cover it is?

Why would the haemonculus add top the overwatch? Also with only 5 dudes besides him they could easily kill him off first.

I like optimism, but your rose tinted glasses are wearing rose tinted glasses right now.
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:37

Quote :
Under abilities next to Power from Pain.

Well, so much for that character.

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Red Corsair
Kabalite Warrior
Red Corsair

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:42

@Skulnbonz wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:
Am I on drugs, or did Hellglaives get WAY better?

One of the hidden gems in the codex to be sure.

As for drugs:

20 hellions- +1 Strength (now hitting at str 5!)

reavers- +1 toughness, as they will benefit the most from it

Wyches- +1 A, ws etc...

Also, anyone else notice Lelith has combat drugs now?

trouble is all those things are still over cost when you look at the other factions. I'd be fine with ti if our characters all stacked buffs to every unit, but they don't. I mean look at orks as an example, there basic ork boys provide a bubble buff, so does the warboss, the big mech, and the painboy. It's insane how many layers other armies get, and before some smart alec claims drugs of PfP, orks got mob rule, and ere we go. Literally every other faction got 2 basic rules at least. I really think haemi's should have improved pfp's turn 1 to a 5+ to all units in range, succubus should buff all units in combat etc.
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Azdrubael
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:45

Quote :
Well, so much for that character.
Did you thought they actually read her fluff? )))

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CurstAlchemist
Wych
CurstAlchemist

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:47

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Quote :
Under abilities next to Power from Pain.

Well, so much for that character.

Yeah, I don't think GW gives a crap about any fluff but Rowboat Girlyman's Imperium and Crawl Marines right now. The fact that you are not ordering 12 boxes of the starter set right now and actually looking for fluff and rule continuity is most likely confusing the hell out of their marketing department.
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Archon_91
Wych
Archon_91

Posts : 610
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:54

I'm not complaining about the characters not buffing the entire army ... Cause this is exactly what everyone has been asking for, for the codex to be MORE FLUFFY :/, and fluffwise I can't see a succubus hunkering down with meat monsters that only a haemunculous should be able to control instead of bringing her own hand picked bloodbrides as per the fluff. I also can't see a succubus looking at a unit if kabalites and thinking "yes ... These are the warriors I want with me when I charge, the ones that watch me fight instead of the ones that actually fight with me in the arenas ... While I could see an archon walking I to battle with incubi, most of them would rather have their hired guns and beasts in their court ... And haemunculous wouldn't approuch another unit unless they planned on turning them into mindless Wracks or Grotesques ... Fluff wise the amount of synergy between those three parts of the dark eldar is ... They join each other in realspace raids, they don't kill each other on such raids and all get something out of it, the covens absorb a lot of fire with their massive creations, the kabals shoot out and destroy a lot of the defenses and the wych cults run through the enemy picking off survivors, the exception being the Cronos which happily and mindlessly plays with all the factions by returning wounds via pain to the enemy, it is still possible to make a decent army with all three with the new formations we are given it's just each part of it will have it's own role to play league, which is exactly what and elitist army should do ... So I'mma have fun with my combined army of wyches, kabalites, and coven, each doing their own thing while achieving the same end result, acquiring slaves and pain
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Dark Elf Dave
Wych
Dark Elf Dave

Posts : 509
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 20:58

@Red Corsair wrote:
@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
Just thought of another build...for holding objectives perhaps.

5 Wracks, with X2 Liquifier Guns

Haemonculus with Liquifier Gun

Keep them close together. The Wracks are now T5 with the Haem buff, 5+ Invul as well as their 6+ PFP.  Watch assault units charge them being auto hit by 3D6 shots.

Question...does cover only provide +1 to armour save regardless of what type of cover it is?

Why would the haemonculus add top the overwatch? Also with only 5 dudes besides him they could easily kill him off first.

I like optimism, but your rose tinted glasses are wearing rose tinted glasses right now.

Simple really, this is taken from the new rules...

"You also can’t move within 1″ of an enemy you didn’t declare as the target of your charge, so if you want to engage multiple units, you’ll need to brave the overwatch fire of all of them"

So the way I read that is that if my Haemonculus is positioned amongst the Wracks then they both get to overwatch an assault.
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Sarkesian
Kabalite Warrior
Sarkesian

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 21:02

Rock on Archon_91! that's exactly how I am going into this as well. I've always enjoyed fluffy armies better than netlisting/min/maxing, and it is nice to be rewarded for it too.

I was bugged in 7th that I could only take wyches in units of up to 15. Having up to 20 now feels more threatening for me. That is a lot of wounds, and a large footprint. They have so many different ways to get bonuses now that they force the enemy to make a decision to attack them and then get hit by the big guns, or shoot at the guns and then get bogged down by wyches that don't let you escape.

Hellions might be my favorite unit in our army now. I have quite a few, but it will be worth it to pick up a box of their mini board game to get 10 more and some more Reavers.

Wych Cults needed a lot of love, and I feel that they received it. Did they get as big of a buff as other units in the game? No, but they are better than they were before and look to be a lot of fun to play.
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TeenageAngst
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 21:16

Quote :
and fluffwise I can't see a succubus hunkering down with meat monsters that only a haemunculous should be able to control instead of bringing her own hand picked bloodbrides as per the fluff.

I mean I could. But screw those of us who didn't play exactly the way GW wants.

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Gherma
Kabalite Warrior
Gherma

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 21:43

I spent a lot of time today going through the new index and I have to say that in my opinion, excluding a couple of very poor choices (talos?), it's not particularly sub par. I went through the rules of all the armies that I have/know well, and I all of them I could find really disappointing elements. Just to highlight a couple:

ELDAR
- Windriders went from 3+ to 4+
- farseers powers are a lot less interesting
- scatter laser is a lot less useful now that vehicles have an armour save
- all the move shot move lost forever

DARK ANGEL
- no more jink bonanza on bikes
- DW knights went from T5 to T4
- no more DW special rules
- Azrael still awfully overcosted and pretty useless

So I think the problem here is not the dark eldar codex, it's just a completely tasteless / bland edition of the game

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Dark Elf Dave
Wych
Dark Elf Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 21:52

There are some things I am getting frustrated with already and thats most squads being minimum 5 models meaning a HQ choice can't join them on a venom.

So where in the past I might have taken 4 Incubi along with an Archon riding in a Venom...now I can't do that.

Now the venom is much more expensive at 95 points with two splinter cannons...and splinter cannons need to be within 18" to get off 12 shots.

I am going to need more Raiders!
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Dark Elf Dave
Wych
Dark Elf Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 21:55

@Gherma wrote:
I spent a lot of time today going through the new index and I have to say that in my opinion, excluding a couple of very poor choices (talos?), it's not particularly sub par. I went through the rules of all the armies that I have/know well, and I all of them I could find really disappointing elements. Just to highlight a couple:

ELDAR
- Windriders went from 3+ to 4+
- farseers powers are a lot less interesting
- scatter laser is a lot less useful now that vehicles have an armour save
- all the move shot move lost forever

DARK ANGEL
- no more jink bonanza on bikes
- DW knights went from T5 to T4
- no more DW special rules
- Azrael still awfully overcosted and pretty useless

So I think the problem here is not the dark eldar codex, it's just a completely tasteless / bland edition of the game

Do you know if jink as a universal rule is gone? I didn't notice it mentioned once for Dark Eldar.
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Vathek
Hellion
Vathek

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeWed May 31 2017, 21:58

I'm just curious as to why the light and fast raider is slower than the eldars transport options
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