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 8e - Drukhari

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lessthanjeff
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 18:34

Where was the new PfP shown? I don't remember that in the article.

And why should Reese get all the blame? He only playtested, not wrote the rules or balanced. He got to give feedback on what others made and has said several times that his suggestions were not always taken.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 18:36

He was one of only a small handful of people giving their advice and playtesting, he had a tremendous amount of weight. Also he's been acting like an absolute ponce since these articles started coming out which has only alienated him further.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 18:38

@lessthanjeff wrote:
Where was the new PfP shown?  I don't remember that in the article.

And why should Reese get all the blame?  He only playtested, not wrote the rules or balanced.  He got to give feedback on what others made and has said several times that his suggestions were not always taken.

The Live Talk. There is another topic all about it > https://www.thedarkcity.net/t15373-8e-facebook-live-40k-developer-stream-part-2

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lessthanjeff
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:17

Awesome, thank you sir. I saw some of the commentary about that broadcast but missed the PfP bit I guess.

Smaller chance to make the save but sounds like we'll get to do it more often since instant death won't negate it now. Would feel kind of weird to me if we got it on vehicles, but I wouldn't complain about the increased durability.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:18

@lessthanjeff wrote:
Awesome, thank you sir.  I saw some of the commentary about that broadcast but missed the PfP bit I guess.

Smaller chance to make the save but sounds like we'll get to do it more often since instant death won't negate it now.  Would feel kind of weird to me if we got it on vehicles, but I wouldn't complain about the increased durability.

I already assumed vehicles wont have PfP.

but What i really want to see is Coven, will they get better PfP?

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:26

@amishprn86 wrote:
But the new PfP is (IMO) Much better, we always get a 6 roll to negate the wound roll

Maybe I'm missing something, but that sounds really awful to me.

I appreciate that FnP wasn't very useful on T3 models. However, I don't think the best way to "improve" that was to make the save itself so unlikely as to be basically worthless.

Let's be honest here, this extra save is unlikely to make a meaningful difference to the survivability of our characters or units.

However, it could well cause serious problems for our Gotesques and Pain Engines - which are currently reliant on their FNP abilities for protection.

Now, if the save can be improved by Coven stuff, then it could be better. On its own though, it looks really unimpressive.

Also, just to be clear, is this all that PfP does now? It's just a 6++ save? No more Furious Charge or such?
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:29

Yeah, that's the impression I got.

I mean, unless we're getting those buffs base, I really can't see this as anything other than a nerf.

But at least our boats are shaping up to be better in melee than our duellists!

[/sarcasm]

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:29

I never use PfP any any pure DE list over the coarse of 40-50 games in 7t ed.

I never charged turn 4+ (always just got objectives) I never got to see FnP except on my Talos but I always had a Cronos with them and my Talos was from CtC
NOTE* again I think Coven will have a better PfP Im talking about DE PfP

So for me yea its better.

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AngelicPerversion
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:31

Pfp was not mentioned aside from that tid bit during the podcast. We wont know anything further until the rules come out. I am quite nervous for our coven units as well.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:32

Eh, late game charges with Grots and Incubi were fun. And FNP was a gift from Cegorach himself when it came to bolter fire.

It has just occured to me that our new PFP very closely mimics the bonus granted to Harlequins in the Death Masque set.

Heh.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:32

But I stopped using Grots b.c I always used CTC.

And when I did use Grots I used Coven ones, and again Im talking about DE PFP, I believe Coven will get bonuses to them

Edit: For me a 6+ FNP that i always get is better than having 4 buffs that i dont even use.

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:38

Fair.

Still. I hope that things like the "Agonising" rule are a bit more widespread. Maybe even appearing, and I know this logic will shcok all GW employees, on Agonisers? Giving a +1 to the unit's FNP for each model killed with one?

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:41

@amishprn86 wrote:
I never use PfP any any pure DE list over the coarse of 40-50 games in 7t ed.

Given that it's a passive rule, I wouldn't expect you to use it. Wink

Joking aside, I played predominantly shooty armies but I still got some use out of PfP in 7th - especially when one of my many transports exploded. Furious Charge didn't come up much, but it was useful when it did (typically on an HQ or Incubi squad). If the game lasted long enough, Fearless was handy. A unit of Kabalties in cover with 5+ FNP who wouldn't run away could be quite a pain to remove.

However, what really benefited from PfP was my coven units (that is, the Coven PfP table). Fearless on turn 1-2 is exceptionally useful. IWND can be useful on Haemonculi and Grotesques, and Zealot is really good.

Anyway, with regard to my non-coven armies, I really can't think of a situation where I would have considered 6++ a significant improvement. It seems like a side-grade at best.

More importantly though, is this not a further blow to our melee presence in 8th? Neither wyches nor Incubi have received any significant combat buffs, and now they're also losing the ability to gain Furious Charge in the mid-late game. I know we don't know everything yet, but it doesn't make me optimistic about these units being good in 8th. Neutral
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:42

Little strong. Maybe per character?
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:45

As I've said, leave the melee to our Vehicles. They hit on (probably) the same roll (3+), have greater strength and durability. All they're missing is the ability to deal with saves. Which Wyches won't have anyway.

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AngelicPerversion
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:46

The coven pfp table was actually quite good. I ran 4 unit of 4 grotesques. Getting IWND was very helpful im definitely going to miss it.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:47

yes the Coven one was good, I hope they still get some cool PfP benefits

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:47

Oh, definitely, no contest there.

The Haemonculus Covens book was the best thing to happen to us in 7th.

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AngelicPerversion
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 19:53

I have been playing dark eldar since 2014 so i mostly have coven units aside from 3 ravagers and 3 squads of kalabites. I will be devastated if coven units are headed to the shelf because out of 1850 points 1100 of my points are coven units.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 20:10

Yeah, I can see that being problematic for you... Welp, Reece has been adamant that DE will be overpowered, despite all apparent evidence to the contrary, I hope your army stays relevant.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 22:09

@amishprn86 wrote:
I never use PfP any any pure DE list over the coarse of 40-50 games in 7t ed.

Really. Shocked

I found PfP invaluable for my warriors and my 18-24 reavers.
Coven PfP was excellent for my grotesquerie as well.

At first glance its clearly a nerf but we don't know anything yet.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 22:20

@Painjunky wrote:

I found PfP invaluable for my warriors and my 18-24 reavers.  

I'd forgotten all about Reavers (shows how long it's been since I last played this game Razz ).

But yeah, FNP was a lot more useful with their T4 - especially on top of their 3+ Jink.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 23:00

My reavers already did their job by turn 2-3 and mostly dead by turn 3-4. lol

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 23:07

One of my biggest concerns is with a character no longer able to join units, grotesques will be susceptible to leadership oriented psychic powers because there leadership in 7th was crap but luckily they got fearless turn 2. Also the way morale works in cc if we lose in combat prepare to see grots take more wounds for having a low leadership.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari   8e - Drukhari - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22 2017, 23:10

They may get a ability that lets them use IC LD's within X distance or something else.

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