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 Mandrakes...finally found a use?

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Jack_The_Ripper
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PostSubject: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 20:12

So I know that everyone hates on the mandrakes (despite having awesome models and fluff) but I may have found a use for them.

They aren't very killy which is why I feel like everyone hates them, but they do make one hell of a speed bump. If you infiltrate them into a building close to an enemy unit or something, they start with a 3+ cover save. Plus the psychological effect of having a bunch of them in your opponents face will make them debate changing their plans to deal with the mandrakes.

Also, if your opponent decides to shoot at them, have them go to ground to get a 2+ cover save!! Wink

Not groundbreaking, but just something that's a cool idea
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 20:18

the problem is that for their points, there are a ton of other things I rather have, and they compete with Trueborn and Incubi for slots... I dont know about you, but I always have my 3 elites in 1.5k and over. TB are that good, and incubi can be great at times, why take something so blatently not effective??? I understand if you are doing it because they are cool and you are just playing a friendly game, but I rather have something point effective.

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Jack_The_Ripper
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 20:20

Well that is true, for what it's worth our elites are packed with good choices...I just love the mandrakes since they were redone. Sure they aren't the most competitive thing in the book but they kick ass once they get some pain going.

EDIT: nah, I lied about them kicking ass with a pain token, they're just awesome to me.
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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 20:29

I agree they look and feel awesome, but as Shadows said the elite slots can really be filled with better units.

I thought about using them in Kill Team a while ago though, wonder if that might not work out pretty nice...

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Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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Dez
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 20:36

Do you know what would make them good? A support unit, an IC that had Infiltrate you could attach.

Maybe there will be some 6e changes that will help them, because I really like the models and fluff and will use them anyway. I'll find a way to make them work, like MANZ and Flash Gits Wink
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 20:42

Both MANz and Flash Gitz work better than Mandrakes though - because the problem with those units is that they're expensive for what they do, but they still do what they do very, very well. If I have MANz assault anything lacking a lot of power weapons, they are going to mulch it in seconds while taking few, if any, casualties. Let them get a hold of a vehicle and they'll shred it to pieces. Flash Gitz are shooty Nobs, they're able to have a Pain Boy, wound allocation, anc can pump out a massive number of shots that shred through armor and can even assault thereafter with solid and capable effect.

Mandrakes are expensive for what they do, and don't do it that well either. Seriously, what do they do? We're actually all posting in a discussion topic where there is a legitimate option on the floor (that nobody is suggesting isn't a "beter" use for Mandrakes) and that option is - infiltrate in close and then go to ground if anyone shoots you - you'll be slightly hard to kill.

Whoo-hoo, Mandrakes!

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Cailos
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 21:17

Mandrakes would be better if the Decapatiter was an upgrade character or had IC special rule.
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Dez
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 21:34

Haha good point, Thor Wink I guess my example wasn't that great, even if those units are the 'worst' units in the Ork Dex. Mandrakes....they just aren't looking that good.

I agree Cailos, that would go a long way.
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Phototoxin
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 23:05

If the Decapitator could attack / assault when he arrives that would be good. If Mandrakes had their old deployment rules (put down 3 dudes) that would also be feasable I feel.
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 23:31

@Phototoxin wrote:
If the Decapitator could attack / assault when he arrives that would be good. If Mandrakes had their old deployment rules (put down 3 dudes) that would also be feasable I feel.

Agreed... old sneaky sneaky rules for the mandrakes and/or being able to shoot without a paintoken (or starting with one) and frag grenades would make me think about taking them...

As for the decapitator... if he could assault when he arrives or was an upgrade for a mandrake unit he might also be ok.
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Archon Mephitic
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 23:45

I think all mandrakes should come with DS and assault as standard, or at least when you upgrade to a Nightfiend (why else would you take him?). They're supposed to come out of your own shadow and munch you.
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SirTainly
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 20 2011, 00:20

Best use for Mandrakes? Paperweights!*






*Only applies if you have the metal ones, if you went Finecast haha!
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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 20 2011, 09:17

Best use for Mandrakes is having fun painting them.

And ponifying them.

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Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 20 2011, 14:10

The best way Ive seen them used is you deploy them right smack in the middle of the opponent's line, move a haemie up and kick him out, giving them a pain token, pop open some tanks, and let them go crazy with their shooting. Then just make them suck dirt almost every time they get shot. The few times Ive tried this, they actually took alot of flak (which saved my TB from getting toasted) but since I dont get my TB out of my venoms anymore... They have lost their fire magnet purpose in life.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 20 2011, 14:22

@Saintspirit wrote:
Best use for Mandrakes is having fun painting them.

And ponifying them.
I got sucked into buying a box for this reason. Had a great time painting them, and they look good in my LFGS display case...not my army case. tongue
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a1elbow
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 20 2011, 16:38

Reserve, WWP, deploy with Haemoculus. At least they have something going for them at the point they appear. But I also hate moving units around for PT tricks.

Anything else and they are a total waste. It would have been cool if they had a special type of deployment like Ymgarls but them as infiltrators is really one of the worst units with that option.
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thelordhellion
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 06:29

mandrakes are part of 2nd stage of "the flaying" in apoc games along with scourge to get rid of the isolated infantry
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 07:02

Though;

1. That's not actually an Apoc datasheet - just a described thing they do.
and
2. They'd actually be really bad at doing what they're described as doing there.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 08:06

If only you could buy them their first pain token...

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Grumpy Kwi
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 15:03

Looking at the 6th edition rules and stratagems I think they can have some of their drawbacks remedied - too bad you got to spend statagems to overcome their weaknesses. For example, one statagem is giving your units offensive grenades.

I used them once out of a wwp with a chronos in the list - was able to give them a token when they emerged and from then on just hid in cover and shot at landspeeders for the rest of the game. I did use them to clear off a combat squaded marine squad that my chronos had assaultand then found the furious charge pretty darn nice in CC.

They survived the game but it was kind of odd just using them to shoot AV10 all game.

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fenrisnorth
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 16:58

Wait, 6th ed has been leaked? Why am I always the last to hear about this stuff?

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 18:04

To be honest I'm sure 6th ed is ready AND playtested.

Anyway Mandrakes confuse me.

If You infiltrate with them, then You can't shoot. Run-for-Your-money lolfest begins...

If You DON'T infiltrate with them (for example because You've gave them Pain Token), then You should ask Yourself why You bring them in the first place.

To be honest... I find ONE use for them.
Go first, Infiltrate them out of LoS but within 12" from enemy Devastators/Lootas, assault. Don't quite care if they will die, hopefully they can survive 4 CC phases... In two turns, without fire support that could knock Your Raiders You should serve enemy his buttocks on silver plate.
Who know, You may try to assault feared PsyAutocannon Dreads? That would be hilarious outcome...

First rule of economy - don't think about direct cost, thing about alternative cost (what You can lose without XXX).

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 25 2011, 22:15

While I agree the EL is filled with arguably superior choices, they do gain Str 5 on the charge after getting 2 Pain Tokens, so they are an *option* for that to hopefully harm vehicles and infantry with a multi-charge. Other than that, they are one of the few units capable of Strength-based firepower available in the DE army (Others being Harlequins and Talos Stinger Pods? IIRC?) So, I see that as a boon.

3+ Cover is pretty slick though, I might try a unit some time for the hell of it. Definitely shoulda had Headtaker as a IC to lead them that way they could start with FNP and their shooting immediately makes 'em durable and somewhat a all-rounder kind of threat.
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 11 2011, 12:33

If mandrakes came with a pain token (or could be upgraded to start with one) or could be cheated into a troops slot like wracks then they would be a creditable unit.

The lack of both any shooting at all, and the lack both of even two close combat weapon and no combat upgrades for the character makes the deeply unappealing. Considering the other choices they just don't offer... well... anything. Infiltrate is a good ability, but definitely not for such under-equipped troops.

Compared to anyone elses infiltrators, mandrakes look even more appalling. Space marine scouts (the typical infiltrators) have a wide variety of weapons options including heavy weapons and sniper rifles, and can outfight mandrakes in every respect. It would take 2 pain tokens for me to be happy attacking marine scouts with mandrakes. And mandrakes are 'elites'. *sigh*
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes...finally found a use?   Mandrakes...finally found a use? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 11 2011, 18:52

I've tried using Mandrakes once... and they worked well, but it was rather situational. I was playing against IG. My opponent was playing with a massive gunline along his board edge, with a couple of Leman Russ's and a couple of hydra flak tanks (because he always takes hydras if he knows that he will be playing against me). I had my mandrakes outflank - when they arrived, they jumped a IG heavy weapons squad, and killed them off to get their pain token. Then they proceeded to shoot and assault the nearby leman russ and bash it in the rear, immobilizing it and knocking off most of its weapons by the end of the game.

Of course, I still think that they could use a little something extra to be worth their points, like an offensive grenade equivalent (they're supposed to rise up from the shadows, according to the fluff - surely that could count as negating the effects of cover when assaulting!), +1 to T might be nice, and the ability to give some upgrades to the nightfiend would be appropriate (a venomblade at +5, or a rending blade at +10 would be sufficient, I think).
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