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 Need help vs IG and Nids

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opheliate
Hellion
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PostSubject: Need help vs IG and Nids   Need help vs IG and Nids I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 18 2011, 07:28

So, Iäve got my first EVER 40k battle coming up as soon as my DE are painted and ready (im pretty fast so hopefullt pretty soon).

As such, I wonder what kind of tactic I should use? Its supposedly an all out brawl between me, Imperial Guard and Tyranids. I dont know the specs of their armies, but I reckon some Nid Warriors, swarms and Genestealers, while the IG have a lot of heavy weapon teams and a tank or two.

We play between 400-600 battles to start.

I got the DE battleforce pack, which means I got 10 Kabalite warriors, 10 Wyches, 3 Reavers and 1 Raider.

What should I do to NOT get my ass kicked (I also got several old models I could use, they are heavily converted and could act as pretty much any sort of infantry).

Some help here? Smile
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

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PostSubject: Re: Need help vs IG and Nids   Need help vs IG and Nids I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 18 2011, 08:23

In a three way battle the ultimate strategy is this - be the third man into the fight.

Generally all three way battles follow the same template. One player commits to attacking a second player. The two armies fight and eventually one is defeated. Then the third army shows up and finishes off everything that's left.

I'd use reserves - by the time your army shows up hopefully the Nids and IG will be commited to eating each others faces.

If you just want to have fun - start on the board, and just keep attacking whichever army seems the strongest.

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Local_Ork
Fleshsculptor
Local_Ork

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PostSubject: Re: Need help vs IG and Nids   Need help vs IG and Nids I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 18 2011, 09:08

@Thor665 wrote:
In a three way battle the ultimate strategy is this - be the third man into the fight

This is the smartest thing that anyone ever said about anything.



I would suggest bringing WWP - our vehicles are costly and better to go "en masse" with them (so on bigger points).
Also try to keep stuff cheap. ~500 point games are different than 2k or even 1k.


From what I see You probably should go with Wyches and Beasts, Your enemies should have A LOT more infantry models than You and those... those things punch horde units in the faces.

[edit]
Here is sample list.
Now look at one thing - there is one Portal. You should absolutely, positevely NEVER take less than 2 in bigger games (ie. You should drop first WWP on turn 1, ever. Moving Your board edge ~20" forward is priceless). But unless Your parents names are "Hope" and "Fate, You probably will not unload more than 1-2 units (or most likely none) until 5+ roll.


Haemonculus, WWP [85]

8 Warriors, Blaster [87]
Raider [60]

232 points

This is core of Your forces. It give You pretty resilent unit (5+ FNP = 67% of wounds saved, kinda like 3+ save. Also, there is 9 members (8 + Haemi), so You took LD test after 3 casualities) that have reasonable AT ability, is Scoring (pretty ok I guess) and can withstand assault (and maybe win!). And best thing is that unit can do whotever it wants in "Dawn of War" scenarios (IG and Nids don't have Night Vision if I'm correct, You do).


Rest should be units of Wyches (always buy Haywire grenades), Beasts (5 Khymeraes + 2 Flocks + 2 Beastmasters cost 114 points, Razorwings have CC AT), maybe Talos(Chain Flails, HBlaster)/Ravager with FF (3 DL is common setting, however I wonder if 2xDCannon + Lance wouldn't be better).

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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Need help vs IG and Nids   Need help vs IG and Nids I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 18 2011, 11:15

@Thor665 wrote:
In a three way battle the ultimate strategy is this - be the third man into the fight......the third army shows up and finishes off everything that's left.


Spoken like a true Archon....


DE play better when playing sneaky. Best try to avoid as much of the battle as possible......then charge in and stab 'em in the back Very Happy
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Need help vs IG and Nids   Need help vs IG and Nids I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 18 2011, 15:56

There is a lot to be said for being last in, but it depends on how the people you're with are going to play, your deployment, all sorts.

I played a three way battle recently. I took a short board edge, my Chaos friend took the middle because the roll off forced him to, my Eldar friend took the other short edge. I attacked the Chaos forces enthusiastically, knowing that he would be fighting on too many fronts to repel everything. I had 1000 points attacking a ten strong squad of Noise Marines and a Defiler, essentially, and though I lost a fair few I was still relatively intact by the time we called a three way draw (I'd killed most, Eldar hadn't lost a single model, Chaos were still miraculously alive so we counted that as a moral victory for them). My Chaos friend joked about how one person could sit back and let two armies knock the stuffing out of each other, then looked worried when I pointed out that one of us had an army that got stronger the more it killed (me).

If the 'nids don't have anything to take care of the IG tanks, it'll be up to you to do it, but whether or not you'll be able to is another thing entirely. If they can't hurt the tanks, they'll be coming after you.

If the Guard player wins the deployment roll, or comes second, they'll most likely take a short table edge to keep their weaponry firing for as long as possible. You're probably the biggest threat with the capability to take down his armour, so don't lose your cool if it seems like both sides are ganging up on you - the 'nids because they can't stop the tanks and the Guard because you can! Against the 'nids, try and make them assault through cover and rapid fire them with your splinter weaponry - with your Warriors you'll probably find standing and shooting your best bet. Your ballistic skill, weaponry and armour are better than those of most of his troops, but your Warriors can't hope to beat Gaunts in combat.

Don't commit your Wyches to a fight you don't know they can win - even basic 'nids have as many attacks each on the charge, and there'll most likely be a hell of a lot more of them! You want the Wyches as a viable anti tank option with Haywire grenades, because you don't have enough anti tank firepower from the Battleforce. I don't have Reavers yet myself, but depending on what they're equipped with you can either hold them in cover until the 'nids get close enough for you to Turbo Boost over them and end your move out of their range or in cover, or try and get them into the Guard, though with a maximum of one heavy weapon in a squad of three that's not a viable option. Try turbo boosting the infantry and at least giving them something to distract from firing at the rest of your force. And, y'know, let me know how that goes Wink Oh, and I wouldn't try and fight the 'stealers with anything if you can help it. They'll either shred you completely or inflict such damage they'll reduce your combat effectiveness. Try not to spread your forces too much, as it'll make your units easy to pick off with no threat of a counter-attack, however make sure the individual models within units are as far apart as possible to counter the Guard templates - try deploying in a line with each model 2" apart to minimise casualties.

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opheliate
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PostSubject: Re: Need help vs IG and Nids   Need help vs IG and Nids I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 19 2011, 06:00

Thanks for the tips, guys. I will update you on my strategy as soon as I get my battleforce together and start counting points. But please, keep posting any ideas you have!
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