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 The Necrontyr Threat

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Blackheart
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 27 2011, 23:45

@kenny3760 wrote:
I think the real threat is that it has been written by that clown Matt Ward.
I heard that this is his last 40K dex before he goes to work on the Hobbit, so no doubt he'll be out to prove just how outrageous he can be.

......

Matt Ward? Really?

honestly I like him better with his fantasy rulebooks... at least there you can be really outrageous and it's still ok...

but I was hoping for someone like Cruddace.... or even Jeremy Vetock if he is able... for all we know he's gonna make the tower of cheese even cheesier... WITH SWISS HOLES IN IT!!!!
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SirTainly
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 00:54

I presume everyone has seen the leaked codex page on dakka by now, if not here's the link to the page on dakka that show its it:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3330/403994.page

That quantum shield looks pretty tough, making it AV13 front and side until it is penetrated.

Living metal is now the extra armour type rule rather than ignores melta and lance.



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Todo13
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 02:48

9,1 large blast O.o I hope this thing is expensive…

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Namica
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 03:11

Each new bit of news concerning the Necrons is depressing. What are they? The anti-everything? One hero that can destroy horde armies by himself, fast ships with good defense, big ass blast template.

Christ.

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SirTainly
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 03:23

more pages here:


http://www.cytadela.pl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1775




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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 12:03

I think the assault elements of our forces will shine even more... hell even mandrakes have a place taking on the basic necron warrior!

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 16:18

I've found that on one of Polish sites:
The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 1775a
The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 1775bThe Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 1775c

And teaser. Note that Monolith, Lord, Warriors and Destroyers have "rods" while rest don't. So... they used old models?
The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 1775d

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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 18:14

What I would fear the most is Entropic Strike special rule, Telsa Weapons, there transports, Doom scythe, The stormlord, Vargard Obyron, Vargard Obyron.

But otherwise I would imagine that playing against them wouldn't be terrible. To me best strategy would be to hit them as hard as possible constantly since there Well be back is a 5+ now. CC would again be the best strategy against them since it seems only there lords and some non troops slots are decent in Close combat.

They seem to have plenty of stuff that screws with Vehicles and it's just going to be the bane of our existence. I will bet thought that we will probably be seeing a high number of scarabs since it looks like they will have entropic strike.

I am not 100% worried as long as I am going first.

We will just have to wait and see the codex to asses the threat level but I think we just need to deal with them like how we deal with shooting armies.

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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 28 2011, 22:37

Actually to me I think they will change my list drasticly. Right now I am running an all venom mounted force with 1 raider w/ either wracks or wyches (depending on which HQ I use) I might have to include a second raider with an assault element to sweeping advance them like crazy.

Actually from what it sounds like sweeping advance seems to be key at removing their units entirely. kill a few, dont take any hit back, and watch them disapear like before. I guess it all depends on the wording of WWBB (or whatever its called now) and if those brought back dont count for determining who wins the assault.

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PostSubject: Know Your Foe: Necrons   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 03:49

Just starting this thread because I know we'll need it...

Especially after confirming this via pre-order information.

Quote :
Happily, and like many Necron vehicles, the Ghost Ark has an array of quantum shielding that boosts its front and side armour values until it suffers a penetrating hit.

I think you might be thanking Darklight now, because Autocannons and Missile Launchers are crying. affraid

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Baron Tordeck
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 04:00

Thread moved and merged

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Smurfy
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 04:11

Woops, I thought I read through the page...Guess not. Nice find on the scans.
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Mathial
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 10:51

The wait is basically over

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

I suppose it begins soon huh?
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 11:26

It's week before release.


I like how GW loltroll fanbase with *cough* "leaks" and "sneak peeks" Smile That's nearly genius if You ask me.

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Namica
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 14:08

Sweet lord I want to see the point values on this stuff. An opened top skimmer transport that has great shielding, is anti infantry, and revives infantry. An HQ that quite literally cannot be killed, but can destroy entire units in one go as well as mind control, a command barge that shares it's life with the person riding it.

My head hurts.

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 14:57

Yeah, some of this stuff now sounds like it's going to be damned painful for us. Hopefully the points cost will balance it out...

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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 16:41

Kinda interesting how they claimed it to be a "shooty" army that rivals the Tau. I know that many DE players have gone very "shooty" as well with little reliance on CC so I can imagine that another army that can out shoot us would be disheartening.

Looks like we are being pushed back into being a CC army with each new codex release.

Very interesting.

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Namica
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 16:44

@Grumpy Kwi wrote:
Kinda interesting how they claimed it to be a "shooty" army that rivals the Tau. I know that many DE players have gone very "shooty" as well with little reliance on CC so I can imagine that another army that can out shoot us would be disheartening.

Looks like we are being pushed back into being a CC army with each new codex release.

Very interesting.

If that's what they're calling it, know what that does to me?

Makes me worry about how shooty the Tau will be.

Baron Sliscus Wych raid will be the go to choice for that I imagine.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 16:52

@Grumpy Kwi wrote:
Kinda interesting how they claimed it to be a "shooty" army that rivals the Tau. I know that many DE players have gone very "shooty" as well with little reliance on CC so I can imagine that another army that can out shoot us would be disheartening.
Frankly I think we currently out shoot the Tau - and so do Space Wolves and IG, one of whom is who I would probably point to as the premiere shooting army. Tau have limited units they can field compared to most spam ones, have some decent tools, some mediocre Ballistic Skills, and actually come into their own for shooting within 18-24" not cross board where lots of armies can pump out more firepower.

In short - in a competitive sense - I think GW has about as much clarity as a blind dog in a pork chop factory.

The Necrons getting up with their 'After These Messages We'll Be Right Back' special rule might lead us towards a bit more assault being needed - but they would have to not only be darn hard to kill but would also need to affect what IG and GK are doing - which are the two armies most responsible for DE shying towards 1-2 assault tools and everything else being shooting.
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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 19:47

Edit: Yeah wrong thread, I forgot.

Characteristics:
First things first, overall they have the statline ov marines, with elites having S and T 5, a realy crappy I of 2 (even flayed ones only have 3), a Ld of 10 across-the-board and a 3+ save.

So fighting them will be similar to fighting marines, not good, but could be a lot worse. S 5 beginns to hurt our T 3 models alot and could potentially pen on AV 10, but I gues here's the wargear, what we'll have to fear.
The low I is a two edged sword. On the one hand we couldn't care less, if they had I 2 or 5, we would be faster anyway. On the other hand they are ballanced to have I 2 and are accordingly priced, so they'd probably be more expensive, or worse in other areas, if their I was higher.
The positive thing is, that they are slower than wracks, abberations and taloi; and they are sure to loose their sweeping advance roll, so if they don't change WBB too much, that's a win. Even if they change it, it will possibly be the easiest way to kill alot in short time.

Units:
Here it get's interesting.

Lycheguard: Either a S 7 PW, or a PW and a pseudo stormshield, that grants a 4++ and reflects successfully saved wounds from shooting onto units within 6".
S 7 is bad for our vehicles, but for our infantry it's just overkill. The shields sound much worse.

Praetorians: Either a 6″ S5 AP2 weapon, overkill against us and too short ranged. Or a CC weapon that has rending and entropic strike (I'll cover it later) and Particle pistols. The pistols are probabyl as killy against us, as the staffs, but the blade is mediocre at most.

Deathmarks: The Necron version of mandrakes. Pull off some DS shenanigans, seems like they can pop up in the enemies round, but because probably in the movement phase, when reserves turn up it seems to be of no real use, since the enemy can still shoot them, while you can't. Maybe there's a twist although. Weapon is a 24" S X AP 5 Sniper, nothing to interesting.

Immortals: Now can take either a gaus weapon or a Tesla weapon. Gauss is more of anti amour and tesla is more of anti horde.

Flayed ones: Basicly the Necron Wyches. 3 Base attacks, no additional CC-weapon, low I but marienes stats for the rest. No PW as it seams, so they are a threat to hordes more than to us.

C’Tan Shard: The new incarnation of the C'Tan. As it seems every C'Tan Shard can choose 2 of 11 special powers, but non may be taken twice per army.

Warriors: Nothing new here.

Wraiths: Got buffed, by allowing them to take a Tyranid Lash wip clone, a pistol weapon or a 12" removes random model from target unit, unless S check beam.

Scarabs: Entropic Strike. Here it's again. Don't think we'll be affected much, but I'll talk about it later.

Tomb Blades: Jetbikes with various weapons, that can take 3+ armour, BS 5 or Stealth.

Doomsday ark: 2x5 Gauss flyers, that may fire independently. One 72" S9 large Blast, if it didn't move or a 24" S7 blast, if it moved. As the name says we are doomed.

Annihilation Barge: Has a special Tesla weapon, that hit's nearby units, after the first hits were resolved. Seems good to counter WWP assaults, since they are packed tightly.

Monolith: Some changes. No longer imune to DS mishaps. No random shots anymore. S8 AP3 24″ large blast particle whip. No bonus to WBB, but the ability to instant death a unit within 6" if a S check is failed.

Doom Scythe: Fighter with probably all special rules ours have. Death Ray, which allows a 3D6″ line to be drawn (with one end of the line being within 12″ of the vehicle) and causes a number of hits on every unit crossed by the line equal to the number of MODELS in the unit hit. Oh and did I mention that these hits are S10 AP1? A range of 12" is not much, but this weapon rocks our vehicles.

Tomb spiders:
Now have the ability to repair vehicles, spawn scarabs into existing units, not their own and can take more shooting weapons.

Triarch Stalker: Concept Sketch shows a Triarch Praetorian sitting in an open-topped cockpit that is riding on a Necron-style giant almost scorpion walker set of legs. Very cool looking IMHO. Has a variable heat ray (which can be upgraded to a couple of other weapons) that can either be fired as a template or as an Assault 2 S8 24″ Heavy2 Melta weapon. Has a Targeting relay which means that any enemy unit hit by the Stalker gets a counter placed by it that allows all other Necron units shooting at the same unit that phase to count as being twin-linked. AV11 & open-topped, but does have Quantum shielding & Living Metal.

Destroyers: New fluff that says Destroyers are infected with some kind of degenerative virus that causes their sole purpose in life to be to kill their enemies. As such they hate everyone and have the Preferred Enemy special rule against everyone (as do Destroyer Lords). They are Jump Infantry now. Any model in the unit can upgrade to a Heavy Destroyer.

Transport vehicles:
Ghost Ark: Only Warriors may take it, but can regenerate D3 models to units within 6".

Catacomb Command Barge: Transport vehicle for ICs. Nothing special, but it can use wounds from the IC to repair weapon destroyed and immobilised results and make fly over attacks with the ICs profile.

Night Scythe: Here comes the bad news. 15 model transport flyer, that has probably all special rules, our's have and can be taken as dedicated transport by almost every Necron unit and can even transport jump infantery.

Wargear:
Emphatic oblterator: That's pretty bad gorgonzola here. Because it has a chance to remove all models of the same type it has just killed in the same CC, so he kills one wych and poof suddenly the whole squad is gone. We don't know, how type is defined and what the chance is, but this sounds serious.

Mindshackle scarabs: Probably weaksauce. Has the chance to let an enemy model fight on your side. Probably includes Ld and as such not reliable.

Characters:
Imotekh the Stormlord (Lord of the Sau): The lighning guy.

Nemesor Zahndrekh: Overlord damaged in the great sleep who still thinks he is flesh and blood fighting the war of secession against his brother Necrontyr. Therefore, he is one of the few Necron Lords who still fights with honor and valor towards his enemies. Has a bodyguard named Vargard Obryron.

Illuminor Szeras: The Necrontyr who took the C’Tan’s knowledge to do bio-transfer and actually made it a reality…so he’s the chief architect within the Necrons for actually making the bio-transference happen. He is a master of technology and can augment D3 units in the army with an augmentation.

Orikan the Diviner: A master astromancer (a Cryptek specializing in tech that can predict the future), he is renown for knowing what will happen and when. During the game he is able to achieve a ‘powered up’ state that gives him a greatly increases statline, but this boost can randomly end on any turn dropping him back down to his regular stats.

Anrakyr the Traveller: A Necron Lord whose goal is to unite the Necron Empires again. He travels to Tomb Worlds still sleeping and kills the ‘lesser’ inhabitants that may live there unaware they are on a Tomb World, the ‘price’ for this service is to claim a tithe from the newly awakened legions. Some Necrons see him as a golden crusader others don’t want reunification and would rather see him dead.

Trazyn the Infinite: Has the power to respawn instead of another character, when killed. Not specified if IC, or just character. First would be ok, second outright cheddar.

Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named ‘Lords’ above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner). Also can be a Destroyer Lord instead.

Royal Court: 0-5 regular Necron Lords (lieutenants to the Overlords) as well as 0-5 Crypteks. Crypteks are masters of Necron technology, whose abilities sometimes appear like sorcery to other races, but they do not have any psychic powers…all their abilities do not require a psychic test or anything like that (nor are they ever referred to as psychic powers in any way). Any member of the Court (Lord or Cryptek) can be split off at the start of the game to lead a unit of Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard or Deathmarks (but only one per unit).

A cryptek may be upgraded to a harbinger of despair, destruction, eternity storm or transmogrification.
Interesting is the harbinger of destruction, that might cause or dispel nightfighting. I smell storm guy combo-cheese.

The Royal Court does not take up a HQ slot but may only be taken one per each Overlord (including the named ones) you take in the army.

Neither Lords nor Crypteks are ICs. And here is the point, why it's interesting, if Trazyn the Infinite can spawn in non IC characters or not.


Special Rules:
Gauss: Seems like not all Gauss weapons are rending, but some are, so they got better against our vehicles, because a for S 4-5 Gauss weapon the D3 makes the difference between small and good chances to pen our AV 10.

Tesla: Every 6 to hit gives additional 2 hits. Thats bad for us, because S 5 hits are just plain bad news and more S 5 hits are worse news. Positive is that tesla weapons seem to be AP- so at least we get saves.

Ray: Hits all units in XD6 range.

Particle: Don't know.

living metal: vehicles ignore crew shaken and stunned results.

quantum shielding: the front and side armour of a vehicle count as 2 points higher, until it suffers it's first pen hit.

reanimation protocols: New WBB, models revive on a 5+.

Entropic Strike: Hits ignore armour on a 4+ and reduce all armour values of hit vehicles by one permanently.
Sounds bad, but really the 4+ stuff is only half a powerweapon and the vehicle armour reduction is just ridiculous against our AV 10-11 paper planes. Find me a weapon, that won't kill av 10 and I'll show you a unit that profits from this rule.


The biggest advantage Necrons got in my opinion is, that they are ridiculously fast now. And strangely have all the abbilities, that were conected with DE, like superfast flyers, drive by killing, broadside barges, super killy weapons of killiness and long range alpha strike weapons. Add in mariens statlines, WBB, quantum shielding and living metal and you get a realy tough army, that unlike our glass cannon seems to be a diamond cannon. Only positive thing is, that they seem to be priced like they were made from actual diamonds.

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Ciirian
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 20:00

.


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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 20:23

Please keep this thread for discussion of how the new 'crons affect DE specifically. General discussion of them, their new codex and models should go in the GW/other news & rumour section.

http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t1361-necron-news-and-rumors-officially-announced-october-29

Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 22:34

@Namica wrote:
Sweet lord I want to see the point values on this stuff. An opened top skimmer transport that has great shielding, is anti infantry, and revives infantry. An HQ that quite literally cannot be killed, but can destroy entire units in one go as well as mind control, a command barge that shares it's life with the person riding it.

My head hurts.
The skimmer is almost 3 times the cost of an un upgraded raider, iirc.
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 29 2011, 22:58

Its going to be interesting see necrons fit in.
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Smurfy
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 30 2011, 09:34

Some things - Marine stat-lines? Aside from the Initative and Saves, I guess so?

A lot of people are reading the stat-lines for the Doomsday Cannon wrong (perhaps reading too fast) but here it is in bold -

Did not move - Str 9 AP 1 Large Blast
Moved - Str 7 AP 4 Small Blast


Somehow people think it keeps the large blast, lol.

I read rumours that the Living Metal rule is actually ignore Shake on a 4+ and Stun as well if you get a 6.

I did not see ridiculously fast stuff outside heavy support, but the way the majority of the transports are playing with broadsides targeting separate units from the "main course" is nifty. I find the Transports wanting to disgorge their contents earlier than later due to the repair bubbles they emit. Just thinking like they would probably. Imagine something like GK do where the Transport+Squad are a threat at the same time but rather than mere firepower support, it's also a squad buff. It's interesting but won't help much. I think it really hinges on how Reanimation Protocols works in practice and while I haven't rolled any dice, it will probably make them ok resilient but nothing compared to the days of old.

Given how the Transports broadsides works and that Gauss causes a Glance on a 6 no matter what on a roll to Pen, it seems scary but really isn't. 10 shots close range from one side, ~7 hit, if you're lucky you'll get 1 but not guaranteed. Now I'm rough math on it but if the Glance was likely to end up from a Broadside it'd give many vehicles fits.

Another thing to point out said already -

Neither Lords nor Crypteks are ICs. And here is the point, why it's interesting, if Trazyn the Infinite can spawn in non IC characters or not.

I read in the WD magazine he can only come out of Crypteks, Lords, and one of the bodyguard units. So he'll be annoying if the rumour that Crypteks and Lords can join squads (a la Wolf Guard style) but if not he shouldn't be a pain. I almost guarantee he'll be taken regardless since IMO the Necron Troops are looking to suck and I betcha the cheapest ones will be taken to get a good 3-4 Ghost Arks/whatever Transport on the table. Same reason I take MSU Wracks+Transport (Immortals - Rapid Fire Heavy Bolters...How many people take Heavy Bolters?; Warriors - Really? Need to touch on this? Flayed Ones - Infiltrating CC units without Fleet is never a good idea, ask Scouts/old Genestealers+Broodlord)

What?
Quote :
Catacomb Command Barge: Transport vehicle for ICs. Nothing special, but it can use wounds from the IC to repair weapon destroyed and immobilised results and make fly over attacks with the ICs profile.
Run that by me again -
Nothing special

Let me explain the shenanigans here -

Quote :
Rumour: Warscythe is Str 7 PW
Fact: Barge has 3 cc attacks that hit on 3+/4+ (dependent on how fast the Barge moves that turn, not the enemy even if it's a Flat Out'ing skimmer) in the movement phase.

Barge with Warscythe Lord hops over target vehicle to nam-nam.
Vehicle dies more than likely due to being CC attacks (hitting rear AV) or not (Anything that's not a Predator/Land Raider; basically all the transports in the known game at the moment.)
Lord disembarks Open-Topped Transport
Shooting phase the Barge's gun shoots elsewhere, probably maiming a Infantry unit if it's lucky and has Tesla
Lord charges Transport occupants with his awesome PW

Rinse and repeat, just needs some support around it.

Just applying rumour rules in a realistic way and some of my takes on this new info.
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