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 The Necrontyr Threat

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14 2011, 17:37

problem with melta is that it has to get close. Sure its going to happen But Crons are like GKs in the aspect that 24~12 in range= death. The only difference is while they arent assault weapons, they can bring enough to ruin anyones day. Yah if I melta (or a MM which is even more scary) hits its going to be devistating, but getting there is half the battle Razz The only army I can see not having a problem guard, which can chimera MM vet spam all day.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14 2011, 18:51

S8 vs AV 13 isn't *that* bad. It's far from perfect, but in this case I would like AP1 more than lance. I always wondered why people say "2d6 is scary". It's not. Check how bad/good are Ordnance weapons, they work in similar manner (often have higher S to ballance that). Is vindicator gun good AT? Maybe.

But +2 to damage roll... this IS scary because it at least damage vehicle and most likely wreck it (on pen).

I'm pretty sure that they would like to pack as many Tachyon Arrows as they can - for 30 point it can pretty much "easy score" any of our vehicles

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14 2011, 20:36

well ork what do you say about our Vehicles??? We are in the same situation... actually worse because ours arent AV 13 Razz

The reason 2d6 pen is scary is because of the average roll. The average roll is that of a 7, 7+8=15, that pens any tank in the game. Once pen, any result is a good result (because the +1 on the chart makes the lowest you can get a stun) which is why meltas are so great at taking out tanks.

Now AV 13 against S7= what... 6s to glance??? Well guess what... thats not getting rid of Quantium Shielding. Now lets look at Missle launchers, namely longfangs. Your going to see about 3 squads of about 5~7 depending on the point value. Since most of the netlists Ive seen so far are running about 7~9 AV 13 vehicles running around, they are definately going to need to splitfire (as well as put some of their TL lasbacks into them) so we have only 2~3 shooting at one vehicle. So that equates to a .444~.666 % chance of a result. Thats not alot at all... especially after you calculate in the damage chart results and so forth. Think about GKs... now they really need all 6 psyflemen Razz

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14 2011, 21:06

My point is that Marines don't quite need to get close. It is vital because most necron weapons are mostly 24", so outranging them is possible. Lower pen pay off in +1 damage.

Sorry for not putting that straight.

Also... I would not compare out vehicles to Crons. Different league.
Raiders are for getting close to the enemy and AT.
Ghost Arks is for enemy NOT getting close. I can't see "Tomb Rush" with them. They aren't fast. They work best as stationary bunker that repair nearby Warriors.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 15 2011, 02:26

@Local_Ork wrote:
Not really, Meltaguns devastate everything with QS (OT) due to +2 to damage rolls.
I'm agreeing with this. The Razorspam was already pretty much edged towards Laserbacks already, and the Marines have more melta than you can shake a stick at. *maybe* it will slightly adjust some lists if Necrons become a solid mainstay - but I have doubts that'll happen.
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 15 2011, 13:13

It might affect GK lists since they don't have access to meltas (altough psycannons can penetrate Necron vehicles due to rending, they're not quite as reliable as meltas and require you to stay stationary to get full use of them). So perhaps more lascannon Razorbacks and lascannon Dreads (ok, the latter will not happen. against nearly everything, 2 s8 shots are just so much better than a single s9 ones).

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 15 2011, 15:21

+1 to Nomic. I do see GKs having to rely less on Psybolter Backs and more on Lasbacks if Crons become a mainstay. I think they have the Codex to do it, its just if they will have the popularity down the road (about a year or two from now) Hopefully if like the rumors say and there are some hidden gems for 6th edition we will see them stick around, but its all due time to see.

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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 16 2011, 01:35

Maybe we'll see Psybacks go to Lasbacks - and though that's moderately a boon when facing GK I'm not sure if it will make a huge difference. I'll still be pumping 15 lances into a single Dread and praying Wink

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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 17 2011, 15:23

Necron player: Our Stormlord shall blot out the sun!
DE player: Then we will fight in the shade.

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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 17 2011, 18:32

@Thor665 wrote:
@Local_Ork wrote:
Not really, Meltaguns devastate everything with QS (OT) due to +2 to damage rolls.
I'm agreeing with this. The Razorspam was already pretty much edged towards Laserbacks already, and the Marines have more melta than you can shake a stick at.

For that matter, I've become more scared of Vulkan horde than Razorspam. The amount of TL (multi-)meltas they can field is INSANE. Combined with that Libby that makes us re-roll successful Inv saves, I have a really hard time keeping my transports up despite their range disadvantage.

Sorry for going a bit OT. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 08 2011, 13:41

Well I had my first game against new Necrons last night and got my a$$ handed to me. Thankfully I learned a great deal from it.
The Stormlord dude is a nasty bugger. T1, I lost 1 ravager, 1 raider, 1 unit of scourges, a venom had both cannons and was immobilised, and another venom was immobilised. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE STORM.
T2 he only damaged 1 unit.

Tesla destructors took care of another ravager and subsequent hits from this immobilised another venom and stunned yet another.
We played KP's and Spearhead, so spreading out was impossible to avoid overspill hits.
The initiative was stolen by the Stormlord, which I had forgotten he could do. So instead of getting in about them I was shot to pieces.

Game was effectively over right there.

Against the Stormlord I strongly advise going 2nd, if you get the choice, and full reserving. You will avoid 2 turns of indefensable shooting and perhaps the storm will abate on T3.

I'll give a few more insights later, but I suspect a list with this guy and loads of scarabs would make a very effective tournament list, capable of taking on a lot of armies. We ran some numbers on scarabs just to see what they could do.
Take a unit of 10 that get into a ravager, lets assume it moved more than 6" last turn so it's 6's to hit.
50 attacks, 6 maybe 7 hits. that 3 or 4 points offf your armour for the rest of the battle, armour 7 or 8 anyone.
Now if the ravager had been stunlocked or immobilised before that thing is dead if even a unit of 5 scarabs hit it. 25 hits 12 points off your armour, wrecked ravager.

From what I saw the codex has so many random "if it hits and its a 6 then roll another die or get bonus hits, or this rule has been written by Matt Ward and is therefore abusable to the n'th degree" moments in it that it's almost impossible to predict from turn to turn.
It could be nasty as in the storm in T1, whereas if he had got his T2 result in T1 then I would still have been in the battle.

Nice models though.
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Smurfy
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 08 2011, 18:43

You know the Tesla has 24" range? Not horrible to use to range to your advantage.

Scarabs hate cc with Wychs

"The Stormlord dude is a nasty bugger. T1, I lost 1 ravager, 1 raider, 1 unit of scourges, a venom had both cannons and was immobilised, and another venom was immobilised. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE STORM.
T2 he only damaged 1 unit." So wait, don't underestimate it, yet it sucked after 1 lucky turn? lol Also, Reserving against stormlord isn't a terrible idea since you come in Turn 2+ and usually the Storm is gone by then.
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 09 2011, 10:56

Exactly don't underestimate it. It effectively finished this game in turn 1. Sure it can suck, but it can also wreak havoc on your army in one turn. Now to my mind that means it is something that you need to be aware of and plan for. That it can just as easily do very little in a turn does not mean it can be ignored. And after facing it, as I said above, believe full reserve is a viable option.

Tesla range is 24" plus 12" movement giving it 36". Night fighting effectively evens out ranges. He went first and used it to his advantage. I've yet to find a way of keeping a whole army out of 36" range in spearhead when the enemy deploys as close as possible, let me know how you do it.
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Smurfy
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 09 2011, 11:22

I'll regard it, I can't do anything about it, so not worried about it Razz Even if you kill the Stormlord it still goes on until he fails his roll.

Movement 12? Nooo, most things Necron can only move 6" and fire, you're very silly. Unless he's using Night Scythes/Doom Scythes, everything else with Tesla Destructors (Read: Only Annhilation Barges) can move only 6" and fire. Given those Open-Topped nature, I'd think it'd be prime priority and relatively easier to Weapon Destroy.

Scarabs really can be dealt with some good counter assault, let them eat a vehicle or two, to lure them in

Keep in mind about Imotek's Night Fighting also hurts them in a way, they can't shoot you well while you have Night Vision. Now if you had to worry about Solar Pulses (Night Fight only affecting you on your turn) well, that's a bit tougher Wink

I'm sure it's tough to stay out of range sometimes, but in fact you can start farther from the opponent in Spearhead than any other deployment, interesting fact there.

So far I think Necrons are ok but surely not like you described as far as OMG-CRAZY
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 09 2011, 13:41

Scarabs die to Razorwings really easy, their template do instantdeath x 2 , because of swarms and T3.

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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 09 2011, 13:45

the fact that the stormlord has a chance to just end the game in turn 1 before anything has happened = wackattack.
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 09 2011, 15:39

I agree with the above "its not a broken codex".

But they do have some tough units that you better know how they work...or they'll just crush over you.

For example... 10 swarms...6 spiders. Turn 1, he has 16 swarms, which IIRC can actually reach 60 cm... it is actually possible to assault turn 1!

As for being able to tarpit them... sure, you can send in...15 wyches? And they're gonna hug each other for a million years. He has tied a flexible troop with a disposable unit of his... hmmm, might not be the best trade off.
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 09 2011, 16:35

He had 2 doom scythes with tesla destructors.

I don't think the codex is broken, or OMG-Crazy, sorry if it came across like thta, but I think it has units that can cause very serious amounts of pain to ours or any other army. The scarabs are a prime example of a unit that looks relatively harmless, but given the right turn of events could be devastating. Example: a land raider hit by 10 of the buggers, could easily have AV 2 on each side after they attack. Not to shabby.

The scarab/spider combo as it's written could easily allow a first turn charge, 9 additional bases extending from the front of the unit should easily allow it. Surely this will be FAQ'd to only allow the base to be placed with 6" of the spider generating it.

The Death Ray threw up another interesting discussion. How wide is the line between the 2 points. Pencil thin, the width of your tape measure, the width of the base of the model using it? Open to abuse and misinterpretation as it stands. Obviously it makes a significant difference to the effectiveness of the weapon.

I have never hidden that I don't like Matt Wards codex writing. The 2 examples above show poor rules writing or a complete lack of understanding on how the game is played.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Necrontyr Threat   The Necrontyr Threat - Page 9 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 09 2011, 20:20

@Tanhausen wrote:
For example... 10 swarms...6 spiders. Turn 1, he has 16 swarms, which IIRC can actually reach 60 cm... it is actually possible to assault turn 1!
Turn 1 assault is nothing new - DE can Turn 1 assault.
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