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 The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000

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Father Dagon
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Father Dagon


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PostSubject: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 11 2011, 22:09

2000 LIST (1991)

Archon “Vivyrus Tristatian”
Combat drugs
Soul-trap
Djin Blade
Shadow Field
Webway Portal

Haemonculus “Radian Yrreth”
Hexrifle
Dark Gate

ELITES

ARCHON’S POSSE
4 Incubi
-Venom
Splinter Cannon

TROOPS

HAEMONCULUS’ GANG
9 Wyches
Shardnet and Impaler
9 Haywire grenades
Hekatrix “Daria”
Agoniser
-Raider “The Falcon Fragmented”
Flickerfield

10 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster
Sybarite “Thel”
-Raider “The Eagle Enslaved”
Night shields
Flickerfield

10 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster
Sybarite “Vasehd”
-Raider “The Osprey Oppressed”
Night shields
Flickerfield

10 Wyches
Razorflails
Shardnet and Impaler
10 Haywire grenades
Hekatrix “Hethriax”
Agoniser

10 Wracks
2 Liquifier guns
Acothyst
Agoniser
-Raider “The Vulture Violated”
Flickerfield

HEAVY SUPPORT

Voidraven Bomber “A Darkness Triumphant”
4 Shatterfield missiles
Night shield
Flickerfield

Voidraven Bomber “A Light Extinguished”
4 Shatterfield missiles
Night shields
Flickerfield

Talos Pain Engine “Gabriel”
Chain flails
Additional CCW
Twin-linked heat lance


This is to be my first serious 40k army. The battle plan goes something as follows (and it will certainly evolve as the hobby goes on). Raiders with CQC squads get into close range (hence, no nightshields), the ranged guys do their thing (I'll figure that out later), the Haemonculus gives up his Pain Token, hunkers down and snipes people until they get too close, in which case he will Dark Gate them. I'm thinking I might need a new Haemonculus to do a more traditional thing, like Agonizer + Liquifier. WWP delivery is also a quandry.

Anyway, thank you so much for your scrutiny! Tear it apart!

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Thor665
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Thor665


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PostSubject: Re: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 12 2011, 03:42

Father Dagon wrote:
Tear it apart!
All answers based off this

Father Dagon wrote:
Archon “Vivyrus Tristatian”
Combat drugs
Soul-trap
Djin Blade
Shadow Field
Webway Portal
Huskblade works so well with Soul Trap because it has a chance to insta-glib stuff, making it easier to kill the stuff that you want to kill in order to get Soul Trap to work. Eh, not bad, just a less easy way to try the combo.

Also, I dislike WWPs on Archons, because it means your Archon is wasting time dorking around and dropping portals instead of assaulting stuff. Best plan? I have doubts.

Final thought - you're with Incubi, Incubi benefit from grenades, no PGL?

Father Dagon wrote:
Haemonculus “Radian Yrreth”
Hexrifle
Dark Gate
Statistically the Hexrifle is a joke.
Even ignoring statistics it's a weaker version of a regular sniper rifle - worth paying much for? I have doubts. He also has a long range weapon but is riding with a posse that's going to get up close and personal - meh.

Father Dagon wrote:
ARCHON’S POSSE
4 Incubi
-Venom
Splinter Cannon
Fine.

Father Dagon wrote:
HAEMONCULUS’ GANG
9 Wyches
Shardnet and Impaler
9 Haywire grenades
Hekatrix “Daria”
Agoniser
-Raider “The Falcon Fragmented”
Flickerfield
Fine.

Father Dagon wrote:
10 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster
Sybarite “Thel”
-Raider “The Eagle Enslaved”
Night shields
Flickerfield
Why 10 guys but no heavy weapon selection?
Why is the Sybarite there if you're not taking any upgrades with it?
Don't spend points that don't have a purpose, yeah?

Father Dagon wrote:
10 Wyches
Razorflails
Shardnet and Impaler
10 Haywire grenades
Hekatrix “Hethriax”
Agoniser
Razorflail = I want to kill more.
Shardnet = I want to tarpit better.
What do you want the squad to do during the game? Why not take only the weapon that serves that goal? By the time you're paying for 10 Wyches I'm pretty sure your goal isn't tarpit - just saying.

Father Dagon wrote:
10 Wracks
2 Liquifier guns
Acothyst
Agoniser
-Raider “The Vulture Violated”
Flickerfield
Fine.

Father Dagon wrote:
Voidraven Bomber “A Darkness Triumphant”
4 Shatterfield missiles
Night shield
Flickerfield
Lots of points being spent here - are we clear on the purpose? Almost the entirety of the rest of your list is built to kill infantry - what are those missiles here for? More infantry killing? Isn't this unit likely to be shooting those uber expensive Void Lances you just shelled out for instead? So...then why missiles? I think this unit is too pricey and too multi-purpose to ever functionally serve you well enough in the game to be worthy of the cost you're paying for it.

Father Dagon wrote:
Talos Pain Engine “Gabriel”
Chain flails
Additional CCW
Twin-linked heat lance
So...basically all that's coming out of your WWP is a squad of Wyches and this Talos?
Is that worth paying points for the right to have your Archon running around in the open opening portals instead of assaulting stuff?

I'd suggest either going full bore with the WWP - or just buying some transports for your Wyches, at the moment you don't have enough pop to make the WWP seem remotely worth gakking around with.
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Father Dagon
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PostSubject: Re: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 12 2011, 04:12

First of all, once more, thank your for your butchery.

I never realized the specialization that went into the Wych weapons. This is duly noted, and will be altered for the future.

Sybarites: They're there for the extra leadership. I can't have these guys bitching out when I need them.
10-man squads: I kinda figured I could go for extra durability, though that probably means nothing among the DE. I'm under the impression that Heavy Weapons on our Warriors are a bad idea, due to restricting their mobility?

Haemonculus: Yeah, I'm kinda iffy on him too. Sadly, he's already assembled and painted. The idea is that he would give up his Pain Token, hide somewhere, snipe, release the Dark Gate, and that's how he'd have his fun. I just kinda wanted a sniper unit.

Voidraven: I'll be honest: It's pretty immature, but I really want to kill things in this game. It's the best part. The idea of dropping 4 large templates on some fools just seems kickass.

WWP: You are pretty right. This list needs revising. But, alas, it comes closer all the time.


Really, I built this list around having fun. I tend to really like explosions in this game.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 12 2011, 04:55

The list will definitely provide explosions.

10 man squad; by the time buying 10 of them is worth it, why not buy the S.Cannon?
If you don't want the S.Cannon, why not drop five men off each squad and use the points to buy something else?

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Father Dagon
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Father Dagon


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PostSubject: Re: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 12 2011, 17:17

So what would you recommend? Reducing my Warrior squads down to seven, scrounging up some points, buying the Raiderless Wyches a Raider, perhaps? Is it reasonable to get the Talos in position without a WWP?

I might just pop of Radian's hexrifle and give him a Liquifier... just like everyone else...

Also, I'm considering giving my Acothyst a Flesh Gauntlet instead of an Agonizer. Is that a good idea?

Basically, does anyone have any idea of what I could do to make this list more viable? It's intended to be a fun list, I'm not too keen on competition yet.
=======================
Sorry to doublepost, but I'm considering dropping the Voidravens for a couple of standard Razorwing Jetfighters plus flickerfields and night shields. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
I would see about getting a crew of Venom-bound Blasterborn with the spare points.
=======================
Extremely sorry for the triple post, but I'ma guess it's the only way to draw attention to the new list.

2000 LIST (2000)

Archon “Vivyrus Tristatian”
Combat drugs
Soul-trap
Huskblade
Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Shadow Field
170

Haemonculus “Radian Yrreth”
Liquifier Gun
Flesh Gauntlet
80

ELITES

ARCHON’S POSSE
4 Incubi
-Venom
Splinter Cannon
153

3 Kabalite Trueborn
2 Dark Lances
86

TROOPS

HAEMONCULUS’ GANG
9 Wyches
Hydra Gauntlets
9 Haywire grenades
Hekatrix “Daria”
Agoniser
168
-Raider “The Falcon Fragmented”
Flickerfield
70

10 Wyches
Razorflails
Razorflails
10 Haywire grenades
Hekatrix “Hethriax”
Agoniser
190
-Raider “The Condor Captivated”
Flickerfield
70


6 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster
Sybarite “Thel”
79
-Raider “The Eagle Enslaved”
Night shields
Flickerfield
80

6 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster
Sybarite “Vasehd” (This guy needs a new name, maybe.)
79
-Raider “The Osprey Oppressed”
Night shields
Flickerfield
80

10 Wracks “The Altered Boys”
2 Liquifier guns
Acothyst
Flesh Gauntlet
150
-Raider “The Vulture Violated”
Flickerfield
70

HEAVY SUPPORT

Razorwing Jetfighter “A Darkness Triumphant”
Night shield
Flickerfield
165

Razorwing Jetfighter “A Light Extinguished”
Night shield
Flickerfield
165

Talos Pain Engine “Gabriel”
Chain flails
Additional CCW
Twin-linked heat lance
135


Anyway, the battle plan: Pretty typical. Get in there fast, assault ASAP, shoot stuff, Haemonculus goes with the Wyches and has fun Liquifying things. Razorwings blow two squads to Hell, hopefully, and then fly around shooting vehicles until they are sent crashing into the ground and into Slaanesh's Most Sensous Gut. It shall all be very fun, I think. 13 Darklight weapons and one twin-linked heat lance.


Multiple Posts condensed, yadda yadda, you know there's rules about double/triple posting Wink
-Thor

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 18 2011, 01:13

Father Dagon wrote:
So what would you recommend? Reducing my Warrior squads down to seven, scrounging up some points, buying the Raiderless Wyches a Raider, perhaps? Is it reasonable to get the Talos in position without a WWP?
Yes, a Talos is capable of footslogging, and the Wyches in a Raider would be a nice upgrade in potency. I'd drop the Warriors to five, by the time you drop them to seven are those extra two guys really getting you anything?

Father Dagon wrote:
I might just pop of Radian's hexrifle and give him a Liquifier... just like everyone else...
Everyone else does it because the Liquifier is AWESOME.
If you want to be different just for the sake of being different, at least look at options like Dark Gate or Shattershard, which can still be useful. The Hexrifle is just unmitigated design fail.

Father Dagon wrote:
Also, I'm considering giving my Acothyst a Flesh Gauntlet instead of an Agonizer. Is that a good idea?
Personally I don't think so.
The Agoniser is a power weapon that costs 20 and wounds on 4+
The poison blades he starts with are poisoned and wound on 4+
The Flesh Gauntlet costs 20 and wounds on 4+ and causes insta death.

So, you're paying 20 points for a weapon that will give you -1 attack and allows the same amount of armor protection as your *free* basic weapon. So, how often will that ID effect work? Will it work 20 points of value often? I personally doubt it - I'd stick with the Agoniser or the base weapon loadout of the Acothyst.

Father Dagon wrote:
Basically, does anyone have any idea of what I could do to make this list more viable? It's intended to be a fun list, I'm not too keen on competition yet.
Where do you draw the line between viable and competitive?

Father Dagon wrote:
Posts new list
You look a little weak versus mech.

I think both uses of Flesh Gauntlets are mistakes (are you hoping to get that Haem into assault with the Wyches?) I like the Archon/Incubi loadout. I still think the random Syb in the Warrior units is basically meaningless - he's adding nothing to them except being expensive and giving them a slightly better leadership - whoo-hoo...?
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Father Dagon
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Father Dagon


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PostSubject: Re: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 20:43

Hmm...
So I guess you make a good point. The Sybs shall be gone from the list, and I shall figure out something better to do with 20 points. As for AT, perhaps I should strip the Archon, give her a blaster and shadowfield, alter the Dark Lance Trueborn and make them a traditional four or three woman strong Blasterborn unit in a Venom and put the Archon with them.

Also, I dread that I've yet to really play a game with these guys yet, and I'm pretty new to 40k, so, I must ask, what should the Haemonculus do? I was planning on letting him go with the wyches so he could help them out by spewing loads of acid into enemies to soften them up before an assault. What else should he be doing? My understanding is that, with a template weapon like that, he'll be in assault range the turn he gets to use it, so shouldn't he be in a unit that can bring the pain?

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 21:02

I hate to keep linking this here but;
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dark_Eldar_Tactica_Part_1
If you're totally lost on DE I strongly endorse the above - I understand that the guy who wrote it is awesome and has a cool beard too.

To your questions;

1. Shadowfield on a Blaster Archon riding with Trueborn? Meh, why? He's a shooty lord at that point, in assault he should be a shooty unit, it'll help you recall what he's there for Wink

2. Haems in flame range hardly need to assault. Frankly I never get my Haems out of my Raiders if I can help it - they sit in there flaming, if someone manages to take down the Raider then I crawl out of the wreckage and keep flaming. I have one of the best flamers out there so I'm going to use it as much as possible. You can certainly build a unit that, paired with a Haem, is a solid assault tool, but he doesn't need to have that to be effective.

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PostSubject: Re: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 21:28

As far as I can tell, unless you are playing KP games, people will often not want to waste a units assault/shooting to kill one hemy- there should be plenty of other targets flying around!

So he mooches about flaming things until the enemy eventually decide they should kill him. And if they kill him straight away, it means they probably aren't shooting at a raider/ravager/venom/whatever.
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Father Dagon
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PostSubject: Re: The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000   The Kabal of the Bliss Bereaved 2000 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 22:36

Thor665 wrote:
I hate to keep linking this here but;
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dark_Eldar_Tactica_Part_1

Haha, I've already found that, and I have enjoyed reading it. It's really a fine article, and I have taken it into account for this army list. Good work, man.

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