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 New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar

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Zahaladune
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 23 2016, 19:29

The rule being referred to is/was part of the kill team rules, not part of the rulebook rules. In killteam, at least in previous versions, it stated that you could take a dedicated transport and put the entire unit in there, in contrast to the normal rule disallowing multiple units in a single transport.
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Æther
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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 23 2016, 20:05

Yeah I'm reading from the new Kill Team book.

Essentially in one rule it says, all models are now individual units. Then in the very next rule it says transports can carry up to their capacity in models, but following all normal restrictions regarding this. Having a single unit onboard a transport is a normal restriction, that's the problem.

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frenchi861
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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 24 2016, 04:37

"Transport vehicles can carry a number of models equal to their Transport Capacity (but following all of the normal restriction), regardless of which unit they were selected from during Kill Team selection. However, only model that were selected as part of the same unit during Kill Team selection, and were assigned a Dedicated Transport, can begin the game embarked upon their Dedicated Transport."

This is the full sentence inside the book. English is not my first language but my understanding is that:

- You can put up to the maximum transport capacity number of model inside a transport.
- You can even mix the unit (Venom with 3 Incubi and 2 Kabalites inside is allowed)
- Only the model that were assigned the dedicated transport can start inside.

If it were not allowed to put more than one model inside why even say that "Transport vehicles can carry a number of models equal to their Transport Capacity"?? Because it is impossible to have a unit of more than one model in Kill Team.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 24 2016, 07:19

There are a few cases where GW has rules that are only meaningful if you are allowed to do something else, but that doesn't automatically allow the something else to happen. An example would be skimmers being moved back if they end up on top of another model, which can only happen if deep strike mishap is ignored - and there is nothing in the rules to remove mishaps in that situation. This could be the same - you can take up to your transport capacity, but because each unit is a single model that becomes fairly much redundant, unless they make a rule called Super Bulky - counts as six models or something like that.

In this case, it seems the intention is to be able to load multiple units into a transport, subject to "normal restrictions", which I would assume means units that are Bulky and suchlike count as multiple models, but not limiting to a single unit. I can't say with certainty that Aether is wrong though, as single unit per transport seems like a fairly normal restriction.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 25 2016, 17:38

@Kantalla wrote:
I can't say with certainty that Aether is wrong though, as single unit per transport seems like a fairly normal restriction.

I don't get that indication at all. From Frenchi's quoted post from the book, it seems rather clear(Except he left a typo in there, which I'll fix below.)

Kill Team wrote:
"Transport vehicles can carry a number of models equal to their Transport Capacity (but following all of the normal restrictions), regardless of which unit they were selected from during Kill Team selection. However, only models that were selected as part of the same unit during Kill Team selection, and were assigned a Dedicated Transport, can begin the game embarked upon their Dedicated Transport."

It lists the exception to the normal rules(carrying multiple models, which in kill team means units), then says that you do so while following the normal restrictions. Since it literally followed right after telling you to ignore one of the restrictions, I think it's safe to assume that they simply failed to use a better clarifying word like "otherwise". If you change "but" to "otherwise", it makes it very clear.

"Transport vehicles can carry a number of models equal to their Transport Capacity (otherwise following all of the normal restrictions)"

The problem is that GW only requires a High School education to be a writer there, and a lot of high school graduates are terrible at writing clearly.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 25 2016, 20:14

That word otherwise strengthens the context a bit. That looks like an exception to the normal restrictions and therefore it would be OK to take multiple units.

Without that it was simply a case of defining what "normal restrictions" were, and one unit per transport seems like a fairly normal restriction.

The rule is still written a bit messily, because instead of saying you can carry up to the transport capacity it says you can carry equal to the transport capacity. So full transport or nothing! Safe to say that one is not intended.

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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 25 2016, 22:26

Based on the way it was written, it's possible this was also a transcribed written translation from french, which could explain away some of the minor issues, particularly since things like "but" and "otherwise" are almost synonyms in English, and may very well be synonyms in another language like French.

I've run into cases where there was no French word for particular things that you'd definitely think there would be.
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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 25 2016, 23:37

So in short, what can I do with Raider, 20 warriors, 10 wyches, 5 hellions?
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Æther
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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29 2016, 02:52

Well there are only two ways to read it, one guy per transport, or any models of any mix up to its capacity. Pretty different ways of playin but that's it.

I played a few games with my wife, we played it with multiple models/units being able to be in Transports. Since that's the way it's been played in the past, and the rule is so ambiguous now it was too hard to be sure, so yeah defaulted to the old way.

We only had my models to play around with, had a smaller elite team in a Venom, a trooper team in a Raider, and an Eldar Ranger kill team. I let my girl play the 10xWarriors in Raider... she whooped me good everytime. Her guys never even had to disembark... I thought my Ranger team would do well at least, after she vaporied my Venom Team in two turns. The 2+ saves and hiding in ruins sounded nice, but she got me to roll those 1, and I didn't scratch her Razz it lasted to the bottom of turn 6 then she tabled me.


DE KTD (200pts)

~Troops
7x Kabalite Warriors (one guerrilla spec)
1x Sybarite with Haywire Grenades (leader)
1x Warrior with Splinter Cannon (Relentless)
1x Warrior with Blaster (27" range)
1x Raider with Dark Lance and Splinter Racks

It kicked my ass anyways.

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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2016, 22:04

Curious if anyone has been running beast masters to tie up units while your kabalites get in a good position.

and much like Lemonstar I am also very limited in models and can't quite afford new ones so what would be an ideal kill team list with? and given how lovely the wych models are can they be salvaged in kill team battles?

20 Kabalites (2 Blaster, 1 dark lance, 2 Sybarites), 10 wyches, 3 reavers, beast master/2 Khymerae and 2 raiders?

I was thinking
8x Kabalite Warriors
1x Sybarite (splinter rifle melee weapon)
1x Warrior with Blaster
3x Reavers (1 with Cluster caltrops)
1x Beastmaster
2x Khymerae

That would set me at 198pts thanks for any input!
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PostSubject: Re: New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar   New Kill Teams and Dark Eldar - Page 3 I_icon_minitime

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