THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?

Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Haridar
Hellion
Haridar

Posts : 45
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Saint-Petersburg

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2016, 15:20

Hello Dark City! Here's a little question concerning our new and... "cool", i guess, Start Collecting! formation. From the first point of view, it is a nice stuff for beginners and some players with little experience, but it is not the thing for most, as we heard it in Splintermind podcast. However, my friends in russian meta started to think how much you can put extra units in Purge Cotorie. And sometimes their ideas are just... beyond the laws of this mortal realm.

My personal question is concerning about Archon from this formation. To be more precise - the Court of Archon. The wording of Retuine says:
Quote :
For each Archon included un a Detachment, the Detachment can include a Court of the Archon that does not take up a slot in Force Organisation chart

If I'm not mistaken, formations are still can be Detachments of their own. You can argue about that "there is no slots and FOC inside a formation" but still. Can we take in such a case the Court in Purge Cotorie? If so, does they recieve such bonus from this formation.

The other question is about a kabalites. In recent FAQ GW (curse them for such wording, no, really, it's a pain to work with such fixes even in English speaking communities, now just imagine when a ton of non-english speakers try to translate them and each sees them the way they like) said that in Raiding Party formation we can upgrade the Kabalites into Trueborn.
So, the second question - if whis works in one case, can it work here?

Thank you for your time and opinions!

_________________
How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? 9
Back to top Go down
aurynn
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2016, 15:54

If it works in one formation, it works in them all IMO.

Simply put - where battlefield role is concerned (in CAD) a unit filling a particular battlefield role slot has to have that role. Therefore, Trueborn cannot fill Troop slot.

In formation, where battlefield role is irrelevant, you can use any and all upgrades that Datasheet lets you. Ergo Purge Coterie Kabalite Warriors can be upgraded to Trueborn.
Back to top Go down
Marrath
Wych
Marrath

Posts : 690
Join date : 2014-01-01
Location : A very spiky Webway-Hulk

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2016, 16:03

There is a whole thread about the purge coterie here:
https://www.thedarkcity.net/t13993p200-start-collecting-dark-eldar-incoming

_________________
Archon of the Kabal of the Burning Misery
Thanks for making the Djinn Blade great for once Smile
Back to top Go down
amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
amorrowlyday

Posts : 1318
Join date : 2015-03-16
Location : Massachusetts

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2016, 16:53

Can we take in such a case the Court in Purge Cotorie?

Yes.

If so, does they recieve such bonus from this formation.

Probably. Talk to your opponent or TO.

[Paraphrasing] Can Trueborn be taken in a Purge Cotorie.

Yes.
Back to top Go down
aurynn
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2016, 17:31

Well I dont think there is anything suggesting you cannot. You certainly do not break any rules since:

BRB - Formations: Formations are a special type of Detachment,...

Dark Eldar Codex - Court of the Archon: For each Archon included in a Detachment, the Detachment can include a Court of the Archon that does not take up a slot on the Force Organisation chart.

EDIT: I did not find any ruling on whether Formation includes the whole detachment or if Formation are only the units listed and the rest of the detachment (e.g. dedicated transports) are not part of the Formation. Only the Detachment. However - since Formations are a special type of Detachment, it can be argued that the formation is detachment and detachment is the formation and cannot be cut in parts. Therefore its unclear whether Court or any dedicated transport bought would get the bonus.

EDIT 2: I know that a lot of people play Dire Avenger Shrine formation so their Dedicated Wave Serpent gets the formation bonus of +1 BS...

Any thoughts on that?
Back to top Go down
Kantalla
Wych
Kantalla

Posts : 874
Join date : 2015-12-21

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2016, 21:44

@aurynn wrote:
EDIT 2: I know that a lot of people play Dire Avenger Shrine formation so their Dedicated Wave Serpent gets the formation bonus of +1 BS...
The Eldar FAQ specifically said you do get the +1 BS, which makes sense because they are part of the formation.

_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Drukhari damage output analysis
Back to top Go down
aurynn
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2016, 22:15

Well I guess that settles that part at least - ruling that confirms buying DTs in Formations and Formation benefit for them.
Back to top Go down
Jimsolo
Dracon
Jimsolo

Posts : 3212
Join date : 2013-10-31
Location : Illinois

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2016, 23:09

Maximum capacity is:

1 Archon
1 Court of the Archon
1 Unit of Warriors OR Trueborn
1 Unit of Reavers
1 Raider (Fast attack)
1 Venom (Archon's DT)
1 Raider OR Venom (DT for the Warriors)
1 Raider, Venom, or Tantalus (DT for the Court)


Last edited by Jimsolo on Mon Jul 25 2016, 01:34; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7568
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2016, 23:19

If you want to really push it you could include a Tantalus as the DT for the Court Smile

_________________
How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
aurynn
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 00:13

Actually a tantalus with preferred enemy... 12 BS4 S5 AP2 shots? Costs as 5 scatterbikes right? ... can it have splinter racks?
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7568
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 00:20

It costs just under 2 naked Ravagers and sadly can't take splinter racks.

_________________
How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Jimsolo
Dracon
Jimsolo

Posts : 3212
Join date : 2013-10-31
Location : Illinois

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 01:34

Edited
Back to top Go down
tegs
Kabalite Warrior
tegs

Posts : 133
Join date : 2016-07-13

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 04:43

Hmm. Now I'm curious how well a 1000 pt army consisting entirely of a Purge Coterie and a Grotesquerie would work.

_________________
Worry not about Chaos; it is the used 40k market that shall be thy temptation.
Back to top Go down
Jimsolo
Dracon
Jimsolo

Posts : 3212
Join date : 2013-10-31
Location : Illinois

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 06:10

Considering it has a grotesquerie in a game with that low of a point value, I'd wager mighty well.
Back to top Go down
Scrz
Sybarite
Scrz

Posts : 378
Join date : 2015-01-23

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 13:25

@tegs wrote:
Hmm.  Now I'm curious how well a 1000 pt army consisting entirely of a Purge Coterie and a Grotesquerie would work.

I have tried the Purge Coterie although one game with another CAD and one with a dark artisan instead of the Grotesquerie at 1000 pts.
Won two games against a non competitive Tau list fielded by a guy that usually plays Crons.
Back to top Go down
Massaen
Klaivex
Massaen

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2011-07-05
Location : Western Australia

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 14:33

The biggest issue is the fact the archon had to be physically on the table to draw LOS to get the formation buff - being embarked on anything means he cant point out the target...

_________________
Objective Secured - Western Australia's Premier 40k Event Organisers and Website
OBJECTIVE SECURED
Back to top Go down
http://objectivesecured.com.au/
Squidmaster
Klaivex
Squidmaster

Posts : 2123
Join date : 2013-12-18
Location : Hampshire, England

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 15:40

Wuh?
Of course you can.

"Open-topped Transports do not have specific Fire Points. Instead, all passengers in an Open-topped Transport can fire, measuring range AND LINE OF SIGHT from any point on the hull of the vehicle."

_________________
Kabal of the Eternal NightModelling Blog
The Squidmaster DistractathonNotes on being an RPG Gamesmaster
Back to top Go down
http://www.escelionfilms.com
Massaen
Klaivex
Massaen

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2011-07-05
Location : Western Australia

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 15:45

That's telling you how to use a fire point - not that you can use the fire point for LoS in general

_________________
Objective Secured - Western Australia's Premier 40k Event Organisers and Website
OBJECTIVE SECURED
Back to top Go down
http://objectivesecured.com.au/
Squidmaster
Klaivex
Squidmaster

Posts : 2123
Join date : 2013-12-18
Location : Hampshire, England

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 16:13

Yes, but they tell you that you can draw Line of Sight from anywhere on the hull of a Transport vehicle.

_________________
Kabal of the Eternal NightModelling Blog
The Squidmaster DistractathonNotes on being an RPG Gamesmaster
Back to top Go down
http://www.escelionfilms.com
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7568
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 16:38

The argument is that this specifically applies to shooting attacks and this ability is not a shooting attack.

_________________
How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Marrath
Wych
Marrath

Posts : 690
Join date : 2014-01-01
Location : A very spiky Webway-Hulk

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 16:43

I agree with Squidmaster, it tells you how to measure line of sight.
And logically if it's enough to point a gun, it's enough to point a finger in my opinion.
Also, as somebody else aptly stated our transports are flying balconies.
If that's not enough to convince your opponent, it's probably not worth playing him?

Edit: The FAQ bit that said a unit in a transport is virtually not on the battlefield, wasn't it in an FAQ for another army?
Did it say anything about open transports or line of sight?

Edit 2: The owner of my local GW says so too, whatever that's worth Razz

_________________
Archon of the Kabal of the Burning Misery
Thanks for making the Djinn Blade great for once Smile
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7568
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 16:56

For the record, I absolutely agree that Archons should be able to do this from an open-topped vehicle but RAW I don't believe they can.

_________________
How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
tegs
Kabalite Warrior
tegs

Posts : 133
Join date : 2016-07-13

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 17:02

From the section on Fire Points:
"Ranges and line of sight are measured from the Fire Point itself."

Other sentences in that section specify shooting and psychic powers, but that sentence doesn't have any such limiter, and it's under the Vehicle->Transports section so it isn't in a section dedicated to a particular phase or action. It should reasonably be interpreted as a general case rule.

There is definitely wiggle room to argue the point, but I'm pretty far on the RAW side of things and even I think that's excessive.

_________________
Worry not about Chaos; it is the used 40k market that shall be thy temptation.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7568
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 17:12

@tegs wrote:
From the section on Fire Points:
"Ranges and line of sight are measured from the Fire Point itself."

Other sentences in that section specify shooting and psychic powers, but that sentence doesn't have any such limiter, and it's under the Vehicle->Transports section so it isn't in a section dedicated to a particular phase or action.  It should reasonably be interpreted as a general case rule.

There is definitely wiggle room to argue the point, but I'm pretty far on the RAW side of things and even I think that's excessive.

I think you're being somewhat selective. The quote you provided is preceded by the sentence "A Fire Point is a hatch or gun slit from which one or more passengers inside the vehicle can fire shooting weapons (or use witchfire psychic powers)". The paragraph is discussing the procedure for doing so and I don't think you can really argue that it can be extended to a general rule for LOS.

_________________
How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Massaen
Klaivex
Massaen

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2011-07-05
Location : Western Australia

How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2016, 17:24

Plus as already stated, special rules (like an ethereals ability or the archons PE rule) can only be used when actually on the table and can no longer be measured from the hull.

_________________
Objective Secured - Western Australia's Premier 40k Event Organisers and Website
OBJECTIVE SECURED
Back to top Go down
http://objectivesecured.com.au/
Sponsored content




How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?   How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie? I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
How much you can jam into Purge Cotorie?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Rules: Queries & Questions
-
Jump to: