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 KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?

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Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?   KRP & PfP are they ever worth it? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2016, 23:02

Like many others before me, I've been looking at the KRP & PfP rules & wondering whether there is any merit to taking the formation?

Obviously not to a tourney etc. but has anyone had ANY success at a local friendly level? The formation is an easy 1250:

KRP 1250

Archon, AOM, Agoniser (100)
Lhamaean, Cannon Venom (75)
3 x Incubi, Incl. Klaivex, Cannon Venom (135)
6 x 5 Warriors, Canon Venoms (630)
5 x Hellions (65)
5 x Scourges, 4 x HWB (120)
Triple Lance Ravager (125)

Sadly I think I know what the answer will be, as trying to be objective & comparing it to a standard 1250 I would run:

DE CAD 1246

Succubus, AOM, Glaive (95)
3 x Grots, Incl Aberration, Raider (170)
3 x 5 Warriors, Canon Venoms (315)
2 x 3 Reavers, CC (126)
5 x Scourges, 4 x HWB (120)
3 x Triple Lance Ravagers, NS (420)

I know which list is better, but that's not what I'm asking, can it ever be fun? It's soo fluffly I almost want to try it anyway, that's ALOT of poison (16 x Splinter Cannons = 96 shots Smile)! 8 Venoms  is a stretch too far my collection though & I'd have to proxy the Incubi with my Grots, sadly I do own Hellions.

Is it all fluff & no substance? Keeping the Archon alive is a big issue, no?

Can any Power be found From Pain?
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?   KRP & PfP are they ever worth it? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 12 2016, 03:08

I could see some potential beta-strike use for it, since GW confirmed that you can make the warriors into trueborn in that formation, you theorhetically COULD deep strike all of them in their venoms so that when they arrive on turn 2, they already have 5+ FnP.

The problem is that even with that benefit, the loss of Obsec seems like it'd probably be too much of a loss to be countered by the +1 power from pain. IF, and it's a BIG if, I was going to run it, I'd probably attempt to squeeze a little extra late-game utility out of them by making them assault-capable. Lack of grenades will hurt them, but a Dracon gets 3 attacks base(so 5 on the charge), and since 4 trueborn will have blasters, swapping him to a melee role eliminates the rapid fire splinter rifle that would otherwise prevent them from charging. Maybe something like this:

Archon, Animus Vitae, Haywire grenade & Agoniser (110)
Lhamaean, Cannon Venom (75)
3 x Incubi, Incl. Klaivex, Cannon Venom (135)
4 x 5 Trueborn w/4 Blasters & Dracon w/Splinter pistol & Agoniser, Canon Venoms (860)
2 x 5 Trueborn w/4 Blasters, Canon Venoms (360)
5 x Hellions (65)
5 x Scourges, 4 x HWB (120)
Triple Lance Ravager (125)
TOTAL: 1850

The above list is how I'd garner the most advantage from the KRP's special rule, basically having the potential to get +2 to the power from pain chart army-wide(possibly in the first turn).

Trueborn can be potent melee threats when the power from pain chart has advanced to give them furious charge, as each one generates 3 attacks on the charge, while their dracon generates up to 5 with AP3.

The list also has a pretty large helping of anti-tank shots, weighing in at an impressive 31 shots total. Well above what many people run. In addition, it has a fair number of splinter shots, with 8 venoms putting out 96 shots.

Despite all that, I don't think it's a competitive list, but if you were looking for an army with which to have a bit of fun, and showcase a more "elite" Kabal in a more casual gaming setting, I think a list with melee dracons and an animus vitae does just that. Wink
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?   KRP & PfP are they ever worth it? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 12 2016, 11:35

As Betray hinted, the interesting part of the formation is the Architect of Agony rule. That can be stacked with Agonising (from the Animus Vitae) and Master of Pain from a Haemonculus.

An interesting way to put a list together to take advantage of all that would be a Kabalite Raiding Party (including Archon with Animus Vitae) and a Grotesquerie with Urien Rakarth. One unit of Grotesques could be a large unit of Grotesques that deep strikes in with Urien and the Archon - making the Archon much harder to get rid of. Unfortunately that will end up on the silly side of expensive and would need to be a 2500 point game or similar.

Power from Pain is mainly a melee buff, so I would want to make the Formation melee heavy as practical, which means a big melee Court of the Archon, and big Incubi unit.

Archon with Agoniser, Clone Field, Haywire Grenades, Animus Vitae and Webway Portal
9 Incubi including Klaivex in Raider with Night Shields

5 Lhamaeans 5 Sslyth in Raider with Night Shields

5 Hellions

5 Kabalite Trueborn with 4 Blasters in Venom with Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Trueborn with 4 Blasters in Venom with Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Trueborn with 4 Blasters in Venom with Splinter Cannon

5 Kabalite Warriors in Venom with Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Warriors in Venom with Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Warriors in Venom with Splinter Cannon

Ravager with 3 Dark Lances and Night Shields

5 Scourges with 4 Haywire Blasters

Total 1850

The Archon can WWP in with the Incubi to place the Animus Vitae in the perfect spot. If that happens in turn 2 then the army counts Power from Pain at turn 4, so has Furious Charge. Could make for some interesting assaults early in the game. Would be hilarious to have S6 Hellion charges on turn 2 if they happened to get strength from the drugs.

Like Betray's list, this isn't a recommendation for a competitive list, but could make an interesting game or two.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?   KRP & PfP are they ever worth it? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 12 2016, 15:49

Just a reminder that power from pain doesn't help Sslyth.
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PostSubject: Re: KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?   KRP & PfP are they ever worth it? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 12 2016, 17:01

Hi guys,

Thanks to you both for your suggestions! I'm actually really quite pleased that at least the formation is 'playable' if not 'competitive' & I can't wait to give it a try, just for fun.

I hadn't considered maxing it out to 1850, I had assumed that the tax units would just have gotten worse the higher the points went.

Can't believe I didn't put an Animus Vitae in my original list, it has obvious synergy & fits perfectly fluff wise.

I still can't decide how you play the Archon? I was just going to put him with the Incubi, but since he needs to be alive for the list to get it's bonus, does he need to be babysat at the rear of the board, or maybe joining the Lhamean in her Venom?

If so, would then a 4th Incubi then be a worthwhile investment?

Thanks again guys!
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?   KRP & PfP are they ever worth it? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 12 2016, 17:40

I think with the Incubi is as safe a place for him as anywhere. At least there you have the Klaivex to accept challenges you don't want your Archon accepting.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?   KRP & PfP are they ever worth it? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 12 2016, 21:24

I went for the big Incubi squad to give the Archon some semblance of protection. He can't lurk at the back of the table and get the Animus Vitae in action. To maximise the chance of the Animus going off, and avoiding him getting shot up early in the game, I went with a WWP option.

I think Incubi in a unit of 3 is just too squishy to have much value, and wouldn't want my Archon in this formation in a flimsy Venom.

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PostSubject: Re: KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?   KRP & PfP are they ever worth it? I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 13 2016, 09:12

Thanks again both,

Some really interesting food for thought!

Still slightly shocked that the formation is not just playable, but you guys came up with 2 different approaches to run it Smile

I'm going to try and balance a list for 1850, based on both of your recommendations.

Then it's going to be VERY proxy heavy lol, but should be some fun games. I having a willing victim lined up already....
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PostSubject: Re: KRP & PfP are they ever worth it?   KRP & PfP are they ever worth it? I_icon_minitime

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