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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05 2011, 13:09

I've been looking at Dissies more and more lately and am about to deck them out in my list for my next few games.

At 750 I'll be fielding 1 Rav (3 Dissies) and a Raider (1 Diss). For AT I'm fielding 4 Blasterborn and 2 Wych squads with Grenades (Can also tie up Dreads w/ Shardnet)


I'm interested to hear other peoples opinions on the Disintegrator Cannons, esp taking up the Heavy Slots. They are awesome against FnP troops eg Deepstriking BA and ok vs AV10 eg Other DE, etc
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05 2011, 13:47

IMO - the dissie is a worthless weapon. Everywhere you get a dissie is the same place you get your AT... and you NEED AT.

Plus the splinter weapons are very good AI and very common in the list...

Basically, the dissie does nothing for the list unless its a very specific situation... which can generally just be torrented with splinter fire anyway!

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05 2011, 13:49

Would You consider mixing them on Ravagers? That was viable option in last codex and since new Dissies are *ugh* AP2 HBolters, I would like to have some AT as backup plan. I really want my Plasmacannon back.

Like 2xDCannons and DLance. Sounds like happy medium since Lances can kill infantry pretty well and DC MAY try to bring down tanks vehicles.

Oh and Diss Raiders suck IMHO. You need AT on one weapon vehicle.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05 2011, 14:29

In low point games (under 1000) I can see it being quite effective since killing half a squad of MEQ means more when there are less of them. I don't use them in larger games where you tend to see a TON of armored vehicles where you will really start asking yourself "How hard would it be to break those Disintegrators off and glue Dark Lances on?"

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05 2011, 14:35

I like the dissie. I prefer the good ol plasma cannon, but it's current incarnation is sweet. The problem is our AT is average at best. While we can bring alot of it, against AV 12 our main weapon is no better than a missle launcher... So we need to spam them. Taking dissies anywhere lowers our cheapest AT, making us pay for the same thing at a premium. It's just not cost effective IMHO, and playing this game competitively is all about cost effectiveness.

That being said, if your playing a fun game, you do whatever you feel like!!!

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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05 2011, 18:13

@1++ wrote:
I'm interested to hear other peoples opinions on the Disintegrator Cannons, esp taking up the Heavy Slots. They are awesome against FnP troops eg Deepstriking BA and ok vs AV10 eg Other DE, etc

I'd rather have 3 S8 shots than 9 S5 ones against vehicles. We have many excellent AI options generally making the Dissie more redundant than a DL.

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The Strange Dude
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05 2011, 18:44

I have used a dissie armed ravager and a dissie armed Razorwing to great effect. Always with 2 DL Ravagers as support (and various other AT spread around) and have found they are worth the consideration especially against the waves of FNP troops you see these days and TEQ/MEQ the trick is they aren't AT and shouldn't be used as such they are dedicated anti-infantry and as such are lethal.

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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 06 2011, 09:01

I think I'll keep to the DL for all-comers and save th Dissies for specific opponents that have 1 or none AV.
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 06 2011, 12:43

I've been using a Dissie Ravager and have had positive results.

I agree we need DL's but I think people are a tad obsessed with squeezing as many in as possible and relying on Venom's/Wyches etc. for anti-infantry. Whilst they are good... in my experience they tend not to have the desired effect against anything with a 2+ armour save. I can bring a lot of anti-infantry fire to bear (as I'm sure can any of us playing Dark Eldar), but with a Dissie Ravager I've been able to spare myself "wasted" shots against terminators hoping they'll fail their 2+ and can spend the poison against the 3+'s instead and I get a much better return on investment.

Yes dropping DL's means you have less anti-tank, but FNP and 2+/3+ saves are everywhere and when someones dice are firing, you won't get much past it.

In my 1750pt army I've got 7 dark lances and 4 heat lances. Not a lot as the internet suggests I need to have 15+ or whatever... The other day I beat a fully mech'd up Blood Angels army (5x AV13 hulls, 1xAV12 and 2x AV11) and the Ravager did me proud - killing a full cc terminator squad and termie/SS libby and assault squad and immobilized a combi-pred. At the end of the game I'd wiped everything out bar the last combi-pred which was de-gunned and facing a rear shot from some heat lances when we called it.

The times I've used the Dissie Ravager it has allowed me to be more selective about what firepower I bring to bear and allowed me to free up shots to use on other units. Obviously the Dissie isn't everyone's cup of tea, has to fit your army and bring something nothing else can. I also realize that choosing to use a Dissie will garner plenty of "take more DL's" "you need more DL's" comments. But if you can get past the stigma using it will bring, you may find mileage in it as I have. Maybe proxy it for a few games and see whether it works for you?
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 06 2011, 13:52

I wouldn't use it on Ravagers, as I use those to fill my long range AT needs, but I think dissies on a razorwing work pretty well. Combined wiht the splinter cannon and missiles it does huge amounts of hurt for enemy infantry. And having multiple shot ap2 guns are pretty handy when facing fnp'd Blood Angels or GK terminators.

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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 07 2011, 00:20

[quote="GJR [40k]"]
In my 1750pt army I've got 7 dark lances and 4 heat lances. Not a lot as the internet suggests I need to have 15+ or whatever... The other day I beat a fully mech'd up Blood Angels army (5x AV13 hulls, 1xAV12 and 2x AV11) and the Ravager did me proud - killing a full cc terminator squad and termie/SS libby and assault squad and immobilized a combi-pred. At the end of the game I'd wiped everything out bar the last combi-pred which was de-gunned and facing a rear shot from some heat lances when we called it.

Wow! How'd you do that!? Tactics wise i mean? What are your heatlances riding on?

I just had a 1750pt game vs Deathwing. My 1st turn i fired 10 lances and 7 blasters and did... nothing. I don't mean all i got was a shaken or 2. I mean nothing. Didn't scratch the paint. Result... I lost 10-13 kill points. Evil or Very Mad
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 07 2011, 07:30

I tested out using the Disintegrator cannons on my Razorwing last night, and they killed a lot more marines than Dark Lances would have done. Six armour negating shots hurt a lot more than two, even with the weaker strength! I'm still wary of replacing them outright though, seeing as my army is still quite small, and the stuff I'll be getting next is essential but not anti tank (transports).

It really depends on the composition of the rest of your army as to whether you need everything that can take lances taking them. In the case of the Razorwing I've found more shots is usually better though.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 07 2011, 14:27

Razorwing have one big advantage - this (ugly) 6" high flyer base. If You use TLoS, then it should have better chance to catch enemy out of cover (to be honest, You must be in "area terrain" or behind something higher than 1").

Anyway I wonder if they would be more popular IF 6th edition would nerf cover. Beause "everybody gets one" 5th ed ruleset make them pretty useless.

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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 08 2011, 06:14

@Mr Believer wrote:
I tested out using the Disintegrator cannons on my Razorwing last night, and they killed a lot more marines than Dark Lances would have done. Six armour negating shots hurt a lot more than two, even with the weaker strength!


Nice. I too run the Razorwing....or more fittingly the Raperwing.....with Dissies - fly in from reserve and load up 10 man MEQ squad with somewhere in the realm of 36 armour saves. If it survives the return fire, I then point it at another sqaud, fly over some Wyches too - then fire the Dissies to wittle down the squad and charge the rest with the Wyches and score the Pain Token.
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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 11 2011, 06:18

That's how I run it, Dissies, regular ol' Monoscythes, plus a Splinter Cannon, and reserve it. Best evar alpha strike surprise for infantry.

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 12 2011, 00:57

^Very nice Arrex!

I haven't had the missiles work for me yet, I have to say. Of the eight it's so far fired, all of them have hit something, and they've killed a grand total of three marines. Not good. That being said, I can't wait to launch them at some Eldar, Orks or Tyranids. Against MEQs you just think, "Well, I might as well fire them, they're there," but it's the Splinter Cannon that potentially surprises and the lances or dissies that are the killy backbone.

I've reserved it both times I've used it, and probably always will - it's that sheer horror that crosses your opponent's face when your evil looking plane turns up and fires a bewildering number of shots. As someone said on another thread, it's one of those vehicles where it has so many turn one shots, you might actually forget to fire stuff. It scares people, so they concentrate on that and let the stuff that'll really tear them up get too close.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 12 2011, 02:24

I was the one who said that.

Keep firing missiles at MEQ - it works fine, especially if they're bunched up.

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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 12 2011, 04:35

In my experience, sure, there can be bad turns of firing where your missiles harmlessly blast open huge craters 5 inches away from your target. But surprisingly often, you'll get 30+ wounds on the enemy, and totally cripple some expensive infantry. The only real issue I see with the Razorwing is, in an army full of Raiders with Splinter Cannon toting warriors, do you really wanna sacrifice that Heavy Support slot for another infantry killer? I often wonder if a Talos or another Dark Lance armed Ravager might be a better value. But then again, first time that Razorwing alpha strikes an Ork horde army...
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 12 2011, 11:18

Don't exactly have much to say that hasn't been said already. On Razorwings, disintegrators are great, since the missiles are also (supposed) infantry killers. Otherwise I don't use them.

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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 14 2011, 20:42

I myself love the disintegrator cannons, especially in smaller games as 'Evil Space Elves'
put it. In larger games, one ravager with disintegrators is quite sufficient if backed up by
2 lance ravagers, but as everyone has mentioned, you will need as much anti tank as you
can, plus lets not forget that 3 lances can still kill some pretty nasty infantry stuff as they
insta-kill marine captains and the like. I'd recommend one dissie ravager, but only if you
already have enough AT.

one more thing worth mentioning, i magnetize my ravager and raider turrets so i can swap
out the guns freely, you should try it out

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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 01:43

@Massaen wrote:
IMO - the dissie is a worthless weapon. Everywhere you get a dissie is the same place you get your AT... and you NEED

You couldn't be more wrong. the dissie is probably the best anti-terminator weapon in 40K. Anyone not using dissies against marines should probably stop playing all together. It is also stupidly effective against everything else. It's not an AT weapon, if you find that you keep ending up in scenarios where you need AT, then make sure your raiders have DLs. It is one of the best anti-tough infantry weapons in the game and should never be overlooked. AT comes best from raiders anyway as there is often no point in having to shoot all 3 DLs at one vehicle when one shot can do the trick.
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 02:52

You know what the second best anti-termie weapon in the game is?
Loads of dakka.
Which we can get really cheaply via Venoms, and is also good at killing hordes, MCs, and basically anything that lacks an AV rating. They're also good at killing Marines.

I like Dissies, I use Dissies, but they are hardly a needed purchase, we get by just fine without them in a variety of list options, and they're one of our easier weapons to decide not to bring because they fill a fairly specialized role and are thus not as optimal for all comer lists.

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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 11:45

I agree that they are specialised, and I don't use them in all lists, especially againsts mechs but the majority of players will play a marine army and to say that dissies are worthless is like cutting your nose off despite your face, it's a tailoured anti marine/anti necron weapon, it's not best suited to all scenarios but then neither is the DL, it depends on what you play and from the looks of my competitors faces when they see it's results, they wouldn't say it's worthless

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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 19:33

The problem with Disintegrators is that dealing with AV12 is a huge problem for Dark Eldar. Further, the lack of AP2 weapons is usually balanced out by the fact that we put a ton of firepower onto the table, which can and will kill terminators just as reliably as Disintegrators. Finally, S8 AP2 means that our lances can be just as reliable at killing some of the multi-wound super units like Paladins, Ork Nobs, and Thunderwolf Cav. You just need to concentrate that firepower to see the results.

I would recommend only bringing along Dissies to really friendly games, or games where you anticipate a lot of demechanized elite infantry. Dissies are also acceptable when facing Dark Eldar or Orks, where the average tank is running AV11 or less. Just make sure you bring blasters , heat lances and haywire elsewhere so that you aren't caught off guard by a Land Raider.
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PostSubject: Re: To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate   To Disintegrate or not to Disintegrate I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 19 2011, 20:18

Disintegrators are only a viable option on ONE platform, and that's the Razorwing. (Because it pays an opportunity cost when equipped with DLs) If you're trading Dark Lances for disses, you are giving up a much needed anti-tank gun for no good reason.

Disses versus Termis? Sorry, the current dissies is not nearly as good as the ol' Plasma Cannon version. Not to mention in 5ed, don't expect to get too many shots at enemy infantry that aren't in cover or a vehicle. Like I said before, if you want Disses, run a Razorwing. You've got a WAY better chance of getting that angled, high altitude shot at infantry which denies them cover, and the rest of the Razorwing's loadout is synergistic with the Dissies. Like Thor said, if you want anti-personnel firepower, look to your warriors and venoms. You don't need AP2 when you can torrent them to death. (They're gonna be taking cover anyway, most likely)

I have yet to play a game yet where I thought I had too many Dark Lances and not enough AP fire...
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