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 Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.

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Local_Ork
Fleshsculptor
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PostSubject: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 14:49

Hello!

We have topic with our favourite units so I figured out this topic can be useful (maybe more!).
So what list/army would make You sweat? And how You would deal with it, if You could tailor Your list?

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Cailos
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 15:22

Imperial Guard with alot of templates. Just going to hoping you got first so you can destroy, stunned or shaken the vehicles so they don't throw templates.
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Aniasis
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 15:29

Yes an IG Mech Army can tear us apart. Hyrdas and Manticores, Vendettas and Veterans. You have to pray you get a good Alpha strike to try and minimize the Damage.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 15:49

A friend of mine plays Eldar, and only really plays against me and one other friend, so everything he buys is tailored towards destroying our good stuff! He just bought a Warp Hunter as his anti tank option, to go along with his Firestorm, which he bought pretty much specifically for my Razorwing. Thankfully his bizarre love of Guardians goes some way towards balancing it out a bit! Another friend who I've not played yet has an IG mech army, which I know has at least two Valkyries and whatever that tank with the absolutely enormous missile on the back is called. I'm scared to play him.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 16:36

Grey Knights with Psyammo.

Dreads and Razorbacks with Str 8 and 6 multi shot weapons that ignore shake/stun results. Hate it, hate it, hate it - it's like they built it to kill us.

My solution to custom build a list for it? Eh - it'd be pretty close to my current list, lots and lots of darkmatter weapons. Lots of them. LOTS of them. Like, so many it makes people cry and call cheese on you...as they sit there with their Dreads that have Str 8 Assault Cannons and ignore shake/stun results because they're psykers...

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Deneris
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 18:09

As the master of a Coven, my poor Grotesques and Pain Engines downright hate anything with Force Weapons... yes, I'm looking at you, Grey Knights...

To deal with it? I'd have to somehow get more long-range firepower in an army that thrives on close combat... Laughing
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 19:07

The only thing harder than outshooting Grey Knights is trying to out assault them Wink

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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 20:17

IG all the way.

Too. Many. Autocannons.

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Cailos
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 20:22

I want to say that we seem to have two "real" enemies and its Imperial Guard and Grey Knights.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 20:52

Yeah... I saw foot IG list (gazillion of autocannons, RLs and lascannons, not to mention stupid ammount of Conscripts, like 100 of them!).
T3, no vehicles in "I must have AT" meta and army that don't care about mobility because it change battlefield into shooting range... ouch!

Even standard Guard have edge in combat. But foot is just unfair Wink



"Pure GK " GK also are good, but for reason they are EPIC FAIL - psycannons. They are just too good vs. cardboard planes. Also few nasty abilities (allmighty helberd, WAAAAGH!).



I think that Razor Angels may be troublesome too. FNP + FC, Las/Plas turrets, Shield (5+ cover for mech), mobility...

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 21:01

Anything with templates. I haven't played an IG armoured army yet but do find 3 demoloshers (the ones with 20+ shots each-60 shots :/) horrible. Space marine armies are great fun because they are easy to beat. What I struggle most with, what makes me really cack my breaches... An armoured tau army that goes first. Any army in a game who goes first makes me scarred

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theblackjackal
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 22:30

I have a nemesis who plays Sa'cea sept Tau (lots of Fire Warriors), and this guy has the most annoying knack for finding weaknesses in my lists and tactics that I never even considered, and pretty much exploiting them on the fly. In fact, my best hope for defeating him is in Dawn of War games, where I can reserve my entire Raider fleet and be assured that they will come in on turn 2.

There is an Imperial Guard player in my area who took an optimized 500-point Imperial Guard list I cooked up (two infantry platoons with autocannons and grenade launchers, three heavy weapons squads, a company command squad and a Sentinel) for beginners who wanted a good small Guard list for less than $250 (counting the codex), and made an army out of it, but with more Leman Russ and Hydra support (I'm just glad that he hasn't started using Hellhounds yet; that would really ruin my day). For the record, no one I know has been able to crack that 500-point Guard list yet (PM me if you want a look), there are far too many bodies and there are autocannons and grenade launchers everywhere.

The only player who I don't find challenging in the slightest in my area is an Ork player who insists on running Ghazghkull and a bunch of Meganobz in a Battlewagon in every list he plays. It's gotten to the point where I can almost reliably table the guy by turn 3 and outnumber his Boyz in close combat. My formula for dropping his deathstar is essentially lance his Battlewagon, hose him down with splinter fire and any darklights not needed elsewhere, and then send in the Wyches. I've stopped counting my wins against him towards my play record, that's how empty I feel after beating him so badly.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 22:39

lets see...

IG Chimeraspam w/ Melta Vets, backed by enough Vens and hydras to put any airforce to shame

las/plasback BA lists... man does shield and FNP save their butts

longfangs out the waazzoo... I hate cheap split fire missle launchers

Psybolter back spam w/ 5 psyflemen (gotta have room for that 1 stormraven Razz )

Old sisters with those excorists... man those AP1 missles hurt (sadly Ive played the new dex twice, and won both... not being able to AP his bolters or make his save invul really hurts their dex)

Oh... hey look... its my entire meta Razz

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SirTainly
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 23:28

Spacemarines with plasma cannons

Orks on bikes

Necron monolith spam

Sisters with Exorcists (only time I've been tabled in 3 turns)

GK with rifleman dreads

I don't worry about IG at it's one of the armies I regularly draw with! Smile
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Lightcavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 23:53

Any IG spamming S6/7/9 Shooting weapons. Unless I can get really close really fast.
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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 00:08

Another one that I find interesting is Chaos demons. Ive never lost to them but have had some close calls. If a Chaos player gets the right half of his army to deepstrike and deepstikes in a good place then they really can be a pain.
One time, his flamers of zeench landed 1.5" from 2 squads of warriors/ trueborn that had just been blown out of their raiders and managed to kill almost all of them in a single round (flame templates that always wound on a 4 and ignore armour or something like that)
Other then that I don't have a problem with them. Also everyone seems to complain about Grey Knights and I honestly have never had a problem with them, My opponant usually uses 20
terminators/paladins, plenty of Troops/heavy troops, dreadnaughts, stom ravens, Dreadknights, special charecters, rhinos, landraiders and I always wipe the floor with them. Anyone struggling with all those psycannons should seriously consider ravagers/raiders with plenty of DC and DL and nightshields, effectivly stopping them from shooting if played correctly. Also there is nothing more satisfying then bringing down a dreadknight with splinter pistols...

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 01:27

Im with grub. GK don't bother me at all. They are merely more expensive versions of space marines that are just as easy to kill with our shooting.

Any list that has about the same number of vehicles, or more, than your list is going to be trouble for you. This means IG, razor/rhino spam SW or BA.

Also a well played tau army can efficiently waste your skimmers in 1 turn.

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 01:35

Deny them turn 1.
I have been having great fun of late just refusing the first turn. I let them roll, and even contemplate deploying 2nd....then just deploy nothing. Fly on later and start blasting. But I use enough LOS blocking terrain that if i start to come on 1 at a time I can at least hide for a turn or 2.

Nothing is funnier than when his 2 squads of outflanking wolf scouts and 2 deep striking land speeders come in on the top of turn 2....and Im not even on the table.
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 02:41

@Raneth wrote:
IG all the way.

Too. Many. Autocannons.

The mech-vet spam with 3Xplasma guns inevery squad parking lot list in Chimeras+Valkyries. Bane of my gaming existence. affraid

To counter I am selling my soul and painting Blasterborn for more AT.
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 02:45

@Painjunky wrote:
Im with grub. GK don't bother me at all. They are merely more expensive versions of space marines that are just as easy to kill with our shooting.
Sad I want to watch you play them now so I can learn how you do it. I bring a LOT more darkmatter than I used to because they don't die to our shooting as easy. Do your locals not run vehicles or something? I'm floored and amazed and intrigued all in equal amounts - we'll call it flomazgued.
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 06:59

A solid Beastmaster + Baron combo has been enough to stave off GK shenanigans in my area. Big, bad S8 autocannons happily bounce off Chimeras and expendable Beastmasters with 3+ coversaves, and psybolt ammo plinks harmlessly off of the same 3+ and 5-wound R.Wings. I then detach the Baron, and charge the 'Dreads, leaving GK with a few options -- charge in and risk all those S4 I6/S3 I5 Rending attacks in order to free up 'Dreads, or consider their long-range firepower effectively tied up forever.

When they do charge in, I either rock them like a hurricane, and then go back to ignoring the frantically struggling Dreadnoughts, or else lose combat and fall back, leaving all those incredibly expensive Marine squads out in the open, and ready to be buried under Jetfighter pieplates and massed Kabalite firepower.

In one turn, I've inflicted around 1100 points of casualties to a GK army with nothing but Dreadnoughts and Purifiers. It CAN be done, but their 'Dreads pretty much force reliance on Beastmasters to tarpit. I've also considered another Duke Sliscus army with deepstriking Wyches and Haemonculi, as well -- a bunch of FNP Haywire Wyches could really put a damper on GK nonsense, I reckon.

As for IG, you need terrain, and Beastmasters, and buckets of Darklight weaponry. They're seriously rough, but they can be defeated. BA, however, I've found laughably easy. "Please, shoot us with your S8 AP2 weapons, and Rend us in melee! We love it so much!"
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Raucir Lustingclaw
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 09:28

My mentor's Imperial Fist army is my nemesis. It's usually along the lines of:

Pedro Kantor

Pod with Storm bolter, five sternguard with combi-meltas

sternguard with fancy boltshells and lascannons

ten tacs with lascannon and heavy bolter

ten tacs with lascannon and heavy bolter

Vindicator

Whirlwind

Pod with Ironclad Dreadnought, also known as the dreaded "Brother Jeff".

Basically the pods land and their cargo messes up my vehicles, failing that a hail of bolter and las fire destroys everything. Oh, what's that? Your wyches survived? I'MMA FIRIN' MAH VINDICATOOOOOOR

Honestly, it's the only army that constantly reduces my usual level-headedness and grasp of fun into a teeth-gnashing wall-punching buttery ball of impotent rage.

Just thinking about all those Space Lemons makes me want to kick a puppy.



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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 10:33

Quote :
I want to watch you play them now so I can learn how you do it. I bring a LOT more darkmatter than I used to because they don't die to our shooting as easy. Do your locals not run vehicles or something? I'm floored and amazed and intrigued all in equal amounts - we'll call it flomazgued.


My local GK run 4+ psybacks, 3 psyflemen dreads, paladins, strike squad i think, its the one that moves 36", some character at 1750 pts. Yeah ignoring stunned and shaken is Matt Ward level bullshit but as there is less of them than your average SW or BA razorspam, you should be able to concentrate your darklight more. Psybacks are easier to destroy than las-plas as they only have one 1 weapon. I was more referring to Av11-12 and t4 3+ infantry.


Quote :
Deny them turn 1.
I have been having great fun of late just refusing the first turn. I let them roll, and even contemplate deploying 2nd....then just deploy nothing. Fly on later and start blasting. But I use enough LOS blocking terrain that if i start to come on 1 at a time I can at least hide for a turn or 2.

Nothing is funnier than when his 2 squads of outflanking wolf scouts and 2 deep striking land speeders come in on the top of turn 2....and Im not even on the table.


This is how i like to play against GK. The fact that my local tables have lots of nice tall LOS blocking buildings is halfway to victory for me.

I roll on bottom of turn 2 or 3, plenty of hiding spots if i fluff my reserves turn 2. His entire army should now be on the table, no surprises. He will have spread out slightly to get within striking distance of objectives and my table edge.

I choose my initial target(s), these will be on a flank usually the one with the most terrain. They will be my initial target(s) because i can move to get them in my LOS and range while remaining out of LOS or range to the rest of his army. With decent terrain this is not as hard as it sounds and i only have to hide the half my army thats on the table.

I concentrate all fire on Initial target(s) in an attempt to wipe them out. Disembark and shoot everything i have, dash style.

This is usually provocation enough, my opponent is running out of turns, is a unit or 2 down and will now move to counter attack. I now have the initiative. He is suddenly playing the table lengthways, his units are moving at different speeds around terrain. The result is 1-3 units or vehicles per turn will move into my LOS, shoot at me and be destroyed by my return fire. If you do this perfectly you wont have to move much until the turn 5 objective grab.

I use a spare raider or venom or both to move block. The goal of move blocking is not to stop the entire enemy army. This is a common mistake. I want to let one enemy unit through to attack me and delay the rest. Thus ensuring he arrives piecemeal.

As the game continues my army will become stronger as reserves arrive. My opponents will become weaker as he loses units to concentrated fire.

All dark eldar lords should invest some time and money in high quality tall LOS blocking terrain. Insist on using it at your local, no-one will complain if it looks cool. cheers












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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 17:02

Lol your facing palies. That's why your having a good time. I have 3 GKs players at my LGW, one is a dedicated draigowing player, the other is psybolterspam, and the 3rd is in-between. Draigowing is a joke to DE, as we bring enough S8 to blow those pails out of the water. What hurts us is payback spam. While Draigowing has maybe at most 7 targets to worry about the first few turns (5 dreads and maybe a stormraven and one psyback) we should have enough darkmatter to deal with that few threats. When they are dragging 5+ psybacks and 4 psyflemen, backed by purifier spam... That's when our stuff goes down in a blaze of glory.


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PostSubject: Re: Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry.   Bad Neighborhood - armies that make us cry. I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 22:41

Other than those damn psyflemen, nothing in a typical GK list really scares me. They have few long range weapons so we have an easy time staying away from the worst firepower, especially with night shields, and their infantry is very expensive and eighter overkill (you don't really need power weapons to kill warriors) or largely useless (power weapons or not, you still do 1 attack per guy on my wytches and I still get 4++ saves). Those dreads just assault out paper planes, tho.

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