THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Best WWP delivery units?

Go down 
AuthorMessage
The Hunger
Slave
avatar

Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-09-30
Location : Stuart, Florida

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02 2011, 18:36

Hi everyone, I have no experience with this new Codex having just gotten back into 40k. I want to run a list that puts heavy emphasis on WWPs, and I'm wondering what the most ideal units/carriers for these are. From reading army lists I notice that Haemonculi are almost universally the portal carriers, is it because they are cheaper and more plentiful as an HQ choice, or are the other choices simply better at coming out of a portal than carrying it?

As for the bodyguard for the WWP carriers, is there any unit thta just works magic in this role? I gather that a transport is a must, and I see alot of people using 3 Wracks...why 3?

Also, I've read alot of posts about good units to come out of the portals (Wyches, Pain Engines, Hellions, Beastmasters, etc). Are there any units that absolutely should not come out of portals? I like warriors and reavers, and warriors seem better on foot/transport to use their shooting, and reavers seem like they do better just zooming around (unlike Hellions, which are more fragile to shooting as far as I can gather).

I don't own a single model yet, and so WWP carriers and their escorts are probably going to be the cornerstone from which I build the rest of my list.
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02 2011, 18:55

Wooosh, lots of questions, let's give this a whirl;

1. Why Haems as portal carriers?

The basic answer here you already nailed - they're cheap. There's also, quite literally, only one other option - The Archon. The Archon tends to fail as a carrier for a couple of reasons, let's hit them up;

- generally the Archon is good enough that you want him to assault, if he's dropping the portal he's wasting time doing that *and* putting himself at immense risk just to be shot to pieces, thus it's better to have him come out of the portal and do what he does best - assault.

- Generally you want two portals - if you do that with Archons you can't take any other HQs, however with Haems you can still take other WWP useful HQs (like Baron Sathypants, or just more Haems to escort Grots or Wyches or whatnot)

- Haems are usually a bit better at footslogging and shooting than Archons, and generally that's what a portal carrier will be doing after dropping the portal

- you want to spend as few points as possible on delivery, because your army wins by coming out of the portal, so Haems are just cheaper, win/win.

2. Why 3 Wracks? Are there any other bodyguard units?

Wracks are often chosen because of a few reasons. Three Wracks are used because it's *cheap* and you don't want to waste points on delivery units. Wracks are also good because, with Haems, they are a Troop choice, which is important to get with WWP lists as they want to still be able to use their escorts in DoW missions. Wracks are the only Troop option that can be joined by a Haem and still fit in a Venom (I personally think Raiders are better WWP vehicles, but many disagree) Finally, Wracks are thought of as "tough" and you generally want a WWP escort that is hard to kill.

I think any Troop option in a dedicated transport has a workable position as a WWP delivery system. For my money, a solid bet is a Raider with 5 Warriors w. Blaster. This gives you two anti tank shots, which is *very* important to WWP early on, and also gives you 5 bodies with FNP to help protect the Haem and portal.

I've also seen workable options based around Haywire grenade packing Wyches.

3. Any units that should *not* come out of portals?

Anything with a Dark Lance comes to mind. Other than that there's a lot of openness to it. I think 5 man Warrior squads with Blasters are probably the next weakest option, after that there are just variations of good depending on what you want to accomplish. I generally think anti-infantry shooting shouldn't come out of portals, as you should have anti-infantry assault come out of them - but there's probably room for debate there.

Trueborn w. Blasters/Scourges with heat lances/Reavers w. heat lances - stuff like this gives you tank hunting shooting to open transports for your assault units.

Hellions, Beastmasters, Wyches, Talos, Harlequins, Incubi - stuff like this gives you assault power, as well as some of them being able to assault and shred mech (or for a few to shoot it up) as well.

_________________
Best WWP delivery units? K93hWhs
Best WWP delivery units? L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
The Hunger
Slave
avatar

Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-09-30
Location : Stuart, Florida

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 00:36

Ah, thank you very much. Now it's making a lot more sense to me. So with such an army, the more units I can cram into the portal reserve the better? And with the Wracks, is it worth the points to expand the unit at all, like possibly as many as will fit with the Haemonculus in a Raider? Or is that just defeating the whole point of deliver portal, absorb wounds from vehicle crashing?

And while I'm asking, why do you prefer the Raider to the Venom for your small unit with a WWP? Is it just because it's better at anti-armour?
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2011, 02:29

1. Max Wracks

There's some debate on this, I've seen people try it both ways and I don't think there's a definite answer. My personal opinion is anything that's part of the delivery system should be expendable because it will be them versus an army for a turn. I expect them to last just long enough to open portals, and no longer. On the flip side, there's nothing wrong with choosing to take more advantage of the slot.

2. Raider over Venom

You hit it on the head exactly. WWP lists tend to feature a lot of assault units - assault units prefer to be able to dig into infantry, rather than having to assault a vehicle, wreck it, let the infantry disembark, and then be rapid fired/assaulted by them next turn. The more I can rip open transports before my portal units arrive, the happier I usually am.

Meanwhile, the Venom does what? Shoot up infantry? Hello! That's why I have 40 Wyches, 3 Talos, and a Beastmaster unit in these stupid portals, stop being useless you silly piece of flying junk, go get in a Venom spam list where they need you to shoot Long Fangs to death.

Joking aside - the Venom works, and works fine, but in my opinion the Raider is better suited for what a WWP list needs.

_________________
Best WWP delivery units? K93hWhs
Best WWP delivery units? L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
The Hunger
Slave
avatar

Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-09-30
Location : Stuart, Florida

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 02:40

Thank you again, Thor. I think I've got a reasonable idea of where to start now.
Back to top Go down
Grumpy Kwi
Nightmare Doll on the Loose
Grumpy Kwi

Posts : 362
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : San Jose, CA

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 15:14

Flip-side experiences:

Max out Wracks - I use at least one squad of these and they can either escort a WWP Haemy or go into the portal. The unit is versatile enough to start on the board during annihilation or just be a late game camper. To date I have never lost this unit in the opening turns to enemy fire but that might be due to me placing terrain during setup and making sure they have cover to start in. In assault, they continually surprise me in what they can take on even though they are almost worth less against armor however that is a role for a different unit.

Personally, I do not get the "disposable" scoring unit idea - if I am going to invest in troop choices then let them be strong enough to take a round of shooting but that might be against the meta of this forum.

The other wrack unit I use in combination with the above unit is an 8 wrack unit on a raider - this is my aggressive wwp escort that is going to move 12", deploy with the haemy and lay down the portal. I usually start the Baron on the board solo when I have first move so he flies over to this squad and gives them stealth while taking a pain token. Again, never lost this unit to shooting yet but if any of the squads get into trouble it will be this one.

From experience the portal escorts will usually face 2000 points of the enemy and as I mentioned I have never lost them in the 1st or 2nd turn, nor have they lost morale or have to go to ground. I usually take an Acothyst to assist with the leadership boost but he is naked and the unit usually has as many liquifiers as I can take. As for their raider, I do not put very much into it as it becomes an early target and doesn't fare to well.

Historically, both units are pretty much forgotten once your portal forces begin to arrive. This allows some time to start the wracks quest to their camping mission. I have used them several times to assist in combo charges and even solo charges against enemy units and I think this is where they surprise me the most. Most of these are usually without the haemy tagging along as the haemy is usually trying to flame something or delivering a token somewhere - I do not try to keep them separate but I usually have something for each to do although the additional liquifier is so sweet.

I've tried Harlys as well and they too have always performed to expectations. Unlike the wracks they tend to look for trouble once the portal is down and the enemy never seems to forget about them (although they can't do anything about it when you can't see them). Using these guys does mean a less aggressive portal placement but as with the foot slogging wracks above, if you got units in the portal that move 12" in the movement phase (like bikes, hellions and scourges) then an aggressive portal placement is not always needed - however nice).

I do not really care for wyches or warriors as escorts and I tend to not use them much in the portal either. Wyches on foot are ok for me but I would rather have them on a raider. I've tried warriors and trueborn in the portal and they are still in limbo for my tastes. I do like all the FA slots coming out of the portal as well as any heavy slot choices that can use it - the rest is still on trial.

Hope that gives you some ideas - good luck and happy hunting!

_________________
@Sorrowshard wrote:
Behold my jack-in-a-box anti psycher death wave *phut* *Archon looks at Heamo, looks back at Gk's still pounding up the battlefield towards them*

"is that it ?" ....
Back to top Go down
Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
Shadows Revenge

Posts : 2587
Join date : 2011-08-10
Location : Bmore

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 16:47

I'm actually thinking about writing a guide to full wwp armies tonite. It depends on how much painting I get done Razz

As for carriers, I normally use 3 wracks, but any full squad can be decent enough to survive. Harpies and frogs are an interesting choice, but I tend to leave my elites for killing the enemy, not taking casualities early on.

_________________
Status:
Usurping Kabal leadership for his Patriarch

Current List:
First 2k GSC List
Back to top Go down
lululu_42
Kabalite Warrior
lululu_42

Posts : 236
Join date : 2011-07-27
Location : PA

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 22:58

Curious on why people prefer wracks over grotesques? Well i understand if your just trying to save points or you plan on using them to score an objective.

_________________
I enjoy all games where I can be raciest against Elves.


Space Elves get a pass.
Back to top Go down
Local_Ork
Fleshsculptor
Local_Ork

Posts : 1500
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Near good fight!

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04 2011, 23:56

I don't Razz

However I pair Grots with Blaster/Ago/SF Archon (probably need to switch to BPistol, +1 attack in CC is cool)

@Shadow Revenge

Yes, go for it, me want alien


Actually... I never saw good WWP list, including mine lol.

_________________
Best WWP delivery units? TattoosigtlBest WWP delivery units? TattoosigseBest WWP delivery units? Tattoosigow
"Most vile thing you can read. Ever." - Our Forum Rules
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05 2011, 00:55

@lululu_42 wrote:
Curious on why people prefer wracks over grotesques? Well i understand if your just trying to save points or you plan on using them to score an objective.
Partly for DoW setups - you really want at least one portal run with a Troop option.
I have seen Grots used as escorts to a second portal before. Personally when I use them in WWP I have them come out of the portal, but either way is bankable, I think there was actually a discussion on WWP lists/Grots that featured a lot of debate about how to use them as delivery bodyguards, if I spot it I'll link it up.
Back to top Go down
xzandrate
Kabalite Warrior
xzandrate

Posts : 205
Join date : 2011-05-20
Location : Northern Ontario

Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 06 2011, 01:07

@Local_Ork wrote:

Actually... I never saw good WWP list, including mine lol.

I don't know if there is such a thing as a good full WWP army, even a half WWP army is such a gamble. So you take a glass cannon army, and make it more fragile with WWP and piecemeal reserves.

It looses very big, but when it works it's crazy powerful.

I run almost exclusively portal, roughtly half and half. Generally I like to put assault, or short range shooting in the portal, and keep long range stuff like lances on the board, with one assault unit in a transport to be the counter attack unit. So about half the army ends up in a long range shooting match, and can open up targets for the short range/assault units.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Best WWP delivery units? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Best WWP delivery units?   Best WWP delivery units? I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Best WWP delivery units?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: