Death from the Skies

@Count Adhemar wrote:

Also FNP

Many bonuses to FNP are starting to come with the caveat "but cannot improve this beyond X+". Such as the 3+ we're limited to in the covens supplement.

Iron Hands is the particular FNP one that I'm thinking of but it takes a combination of wargear, warlord traits and psychic powers and only applies to the model, not the unit.

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

@Count Adhemar wrote:

Also FNP

Many bonuses to FNP are starting to come with the caveat "but cannot improve this beyond X+". Such as the 3+ we're limited to in the covens supplement.

Yep, even then, isnt it technically a 4+ with the option of giving your roll +1?

I cant recall the exact rule, and dont have my books on me, but I believe no FNP can be improved past 4+ with anything lower being "+1 to the result" type thing.

I cant speak for other armies but I think thats at least how RAW works out for our boys.

I've seen several folks that use the plus one to circumvent the minimum. IE the roll is a 4+ minimum, but you aren't changing that you are adding one to the roll. So a 3+ roll plus 1 is a minimum 4+.

I'm just curious if that same logic applies to Air Superiority.

Deleted double post - Cavash

Worth noting that the new flyer detachments will allow anyone to take any flyer without a troop/hq tax.

Feel like some more anti-air muscle in your Space Marine army? Take a Crimson Hunter!

Want some Stormtalons in your Dark Eldar for that sweet, sweet S7? Go for it! Heck, stick a Dark Eldar in the cockpit and call it looted... it's fair game now!

@Creeping Darkness wrote:

Worth noting that the new flyer detachments will allow anyone to take any flyer without a troop/hq tax.

Feel like some more anti-air muscle in your Space Marine army? Take a Crimson Hunter!

Want some Stormtalons in your Dark Eldar for that sweet, sweet S7? Go for it! Heck, stick a Dark Eldar in the cockpit and call it looted... it's fair game now!

Add larger bases to them so they are taller and then never worry about one eye open!

It seems to apply that bonus from air superiority (if I'm interpreting it properly) the squad leader has to be in reserve.  Since the whole squadron comes on with the same reserve roll, you'll have to leave a lot of points off the table to keep that reserve bonus.

If kept in reserve there are still dogfights - but it looks like only 1 of those can be declared a turn.  Even then it looks like the razorwing will "beat" the stormhawk about 65% of the time, but then due to the lack of firepower, will still struggle to bring one down.  The storm hawk on the other hand should vaporize our flyers given the opportunity as it gets a new heavy 2 lascannon amongst other high volume weapons.

This formation should be pretty popular over all as it's available to everyone, and grants other bonuses we have no ability to exploit like transports gaining objective secured.

@WhysoSully wrote:

Add larger bases to them so they are taller and then never worry about one eye open!

lol, pretty sure it doesn't work that way. Range in the game is measured from a purely top-down perspective. Having a model on a higher base doesn't actually make it further away from models on lower bases.

I just saw the three attack formations we can use for our Razorwing Jetfighter. All of them are only useful against air targets not ground targets. So it's basically useless. And the bomber can only use that on his bomb. So useless too.

New FAQ wrote:

Q: Can a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature or Zooming Flyer be targeted by a Blast or Template weapon with the Skyfire special rule?
A: Yes.

Well hello. Razors popping a pair of monoscythe (or shatter field!) missiles into another flyer's rear armour on top of its lances or dissies could be enough to tip the balance...

We lacked anti-air, so it is not bad news for me.

We can use our missiles against enemy flyers now?

Awesome!!

does anyone know if missiles be used in a dogfight?

@drdoom222222 wrote:

does anyone know if  missiles be used in a dogfight?

If they can be used on the table, I don't see why they wouldn't be usable in the dogfight phase.

Aaand the data sheets are on BOLS:

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?68413-New-fliers-for-orks-and-marines/page4

Just the same as in the Codex. No points break, no change to options or rules. Crimson Hubter still has Vector Dancer, Razorwing still doesn't

And the formation for the fighters suck if you aren't fighting jetbikes or skimmers or other planes.

Great. I will probably don't use that crap and play as usual. I won't bother using the rules.

Nah. Maybe for the reserve manipulation but that's about it.

Well that settles it, I'm not going to spend the money on it after all.

@CptMetal wrote:

And the formation for the fighters suck if you aren't fighting jetbikes or skimmers or other planes.

Great. I will probably don't use that crap and play as usual. I won't bother using the rules.

Nah. Maybe for the reserve manipulation but that's about it.

Well, reserve manipulation is sort of a big deal, especially if the changes in jink in the FAQ go through, and you still want to play with splinter boats, as your best bet for getting the maximal amount of BS4 shots out will be to deepstrike the raiders in.

Still, I wouldn't take more than 1 or 2 razorwings for that, unless I'm playing a really high-points game.

Ironically the biggest boon for our flyers comes not from the dedicated flyer supplement, but from the FAQ!

Thim going to try a list with two bombers and two fighters at 2000 points tomorrow. I'm curious how it plays out. Some of the benefits look good, especially with four flyers, but I imagine they are crazy expensive for what you get.

Turns out we have tons of air units guys!



So this means our skimmers can shoot air now right?

Will be a decent buff if our ravagers can start killing air.  Its a bit of a stretch though.

Lots of people are commenting that tournaments might start dropping to 1500 points due to time with additional phases.  that would be an indirect buff as I believe we preform even better the lower the points.

Also the hemlock wraithfighter is an attack fighter!? can d scythes hit air now? At least bombers will have a harder time hitting our reavers.

Just because it is an air target doesn't mean it will have skyfire just that skyfire can be used against them.

Well that's lame, you would think from a race that's been at war for so long we would develop a way to defend our appropriate targets from their appropriate killers...

That reserves modifier though...



+1 to yours -1 to theirs.

if only you didnt have to devote 1/3 of your list for some of these formations

@WhysoSully wrote:

Well that's lame, you would think from a race that's been at war for so long we would develop a way to defend our appropriate targets from their appropriate killers...

Common sense and the design of Dark Eldar in the current codex don't seem to have been associated.

@WhysoSully wrote:

Turns out we have tons of air units guys!



So this means our skimmers can shoot air now right?

Will be a decent buff if our ravagers can start killing air.  Its a bit of a stretch though.

Lots of people are commenting that tournaments might start dropping to 1500 points due to time with additional phases.  that would be an indirect buff as I believe we preform even better the lower the points.

Also the hemlock wraithfighter is an attack fighter!?  can d scythes hit air now?   At least bombers will have a harder time hitting our reavers.

If the hemlock is an attack fighter, then it doesn't have skyfire, so it snapfires vs. zooming flyers and swooping FMCs (so no templates), and since attack fighters are geared towards shooting ground targets, it fires at -1 BS vs. skimmers and jetbikes.