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Erebus
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 02 2016, 14:22

I don't like video tutorials.

Generally, in a given tutorial, I already know some of what's being covered. I want to skim over that stuff. I also want to skim the tutorial as a whole, to make sure it's explaining techniques that I don't know. I can't do that if it's a video.

I want to be able to refer back to the tutorial while I'm working. I want to be able to check back a few steps to make sure I did something right, or glance up from the model to verify some aspect of the process while I'm working. I can't do that if it's a video.

So I think video tutorials are significantly less useful and more time-consuming. But people on the internet seem to not only like them, but often prefer them, in that I see requests for tutorials specifically in video form. I'm trying to figure out why.

Do you like video tutorials better? Why? Am I missing something here?

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 02 2016, 19:48

Pretty standard 40k problem here - People prefer the videos because they're never actually going to engage in the process themselves.  Youtube (or whatever) simply has more entertainment value than a practical tutorial.

I see it as the painting equivalent of those guys who have extensive online debates about rules, without ever having played a single game.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 02 2016, 20:15

I prefer written tutorials for painting, as long as they're clearly presented. I can't stand it when someone just puts a wall of text up for a tutorial, it makes it so much harder to find where you are in the process!

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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 02 2016, 22:20

I like videos because they're passive and allow you to multitask. I feel that seeing a technique in-action gives you a better understanding and expectation of/on what the outcome will be.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 03 2016, 01:37

@Mr Believer wrote:
I prefer written tutorials for painting, as long as they're clearly presented. I can't stand it when someone just puts a wall of text up for a tutorial, it makes it so much harder to find where you are in the process!

Yeah, I think pictures are pretty essential.

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Erebus
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 03 2016, 12:17

@stilgar27 wrote:
People prefer the videos because they're never actually going to engage in the process themselves.
This is both erroneous and rather conceited. The majority of hobbyists simply aren't artists with an understanding of colour theory, brush techniques etc.

@nexs wrote:
I feel that seeing a technique in-action gives you a better understanding and expectation of/on what the outcome will be.
This is the crux of it.

A video provides a far better visual of how a technique is accomplished than text with still images, which really only demonstrates the results. And I'd argue a video shows the results better than stills too, all else being equal (ie. lighting, etc).

Personally, I think the best tutorial would be a formatted step-by-step text guide with a short clip from a longer video showcasing the individual step, with the complete video at the end/beginning; though that's a fair amount of extra work, and more than most are willing to put into a tutorial.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 03 2016, 13:42

I sort of feel like it comes down to the same batrep video/writeup debate. I think some people prefer one to the other more based on how they prefer to learn rather than a clear intrinsic superiority of one format to the other.

...that said, writeups are the best format Wink

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 03 2016, 13:58

I have to agree with the last two posters, I much prefer getting bitesize bits if I'm trying to learn something. Video batreps rarely interest me, whereas written ones generally (not always) include much better analysis of the why rather than the what.

Similarly with tutorials, whilst things like blending are really difficult to explain well by means of a still picture, I'd far rather have a breakdown of how its done than watch a long video of someone doing it.

The idea of short video clips hits the sweet spot for me i think, a demonstration of it being done interspersed with an explanation of how it is achieved.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeSun May 01 2016, 03:20

Late to the party but I'll chime in, I like both, I'm not a naturally artistic person so seeing people do it in real time helps me at times while the text allows me to quickly review the steps while attempting (and failing Smile ) to do it myself.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeSun May 01 2016, 03:47

I typically do my learning via theorycrafting and experience, both hearing other people's theories and developing my own based on new rules and such. As such, batreps are primarily entertainment for me while I eat lunch or something, and I prefer the videos.

With tutorials, I'm right there with you, though. A well-written set of instructions, possibly with some visual aids is great. In other cases, when I'm trying to learn the basics of something entirely new, a video covering said basics probably won't be bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeSun May 01 2016, 21:23

After trying to learn some things from video tutorials recently, I've determined that the only way I can make them useful is if I take notes while watching them.

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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeMon May 02 2016, 00:09

@Calyptra wrote:
After trying to learn some things from video tutorials recently, I've determined that the only way I can make them useful is if I take notes while watching them.

If I take notes while watching a video, I won't remember anything from the video because my focus will be on copying things into text form. I can read it and learn it with a typical level of recall, I can follow along with written instructions and learn it, or I can listen to a lecture/verbal instructions and remember with like 95% recall the first time I hear it. But if I take notes, I have to then go back and read them again later to remember them, and I don't like doing things twice.

I never took notes through high school or college either, and aced just about every test. The only time it was a problem for me was in a class where a teacher thought it was OK to base 50% of your year's grade on your daily notebook, turned in at the end of the year.

So, I failed high school geometry. That's the only class I ever got lower than a B in. Interestingly enough, I got an A on the final exam for that same class. Funny how in the USA, we're not judged by our success, but by HOW we succeed or fail. Fail but work hard and you're deemed passworthy. Succeed with flying colors while barely trying and you're somehow regarded as a failure. We're creating a world of hard-working losers with substandard intellect and bad judgement.

Due to my feelings on this, you will rarely catch me coddling someone, and I occasionally come across as rude or arrogant, but I assure you, I'm not trying to be either. I just think we spend too much time and effort trying to be "nice" and "politically correct" in order to not hurt anyone's feelings. Feelings get hurt. We should focus on things that matter.

/end rant
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding video tutorials   Regarding video tutorials I_icon_minitimeTue May 03 2016, 04:22

Different people learn in different ways. When I teach classes or workshops, I try to throw as many different approaches and perspectives at my students as possible, until something sticks.

I suffer from some disorders which negatively effect my memory. That said, I suspect that most people will struggle, 20 minutes after watching a video, with remembering precisely how step 6 went.

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

We're creating a world of hard-working losers with substandard intellect and bad judgement.

...I think we're leaving the topic behind here.

There's no good way to measure - or even define - "intellect." "Bad judgement" frequently just means "I don't understand why somebody behaved the way they did, and I'm not going to bother trying to figure it out." But hard work is more important than anything if you want to get good at something. A natural aptitude will help, sure, but it is not as important as putting in the hours.

I get a lot of "I could never do what you do" or "I wish I could do what you do," and it's infuriating, because they can. But what they mean is, "I wish I could do what you do without having to train for hours a day over the course of years."

I also get a lot of smug disbelief: people who assume that there must be some trick, some easy way of doing it. I assume these people have trust funds, because I don't think they're going to get very far otherwise. I generally encounter this attitude as a performer, but I've even run into as a miniature painter. I tried to teach someone to paint models once, and they were astonished when there wasn't an easy "trick" to it. Honestly, it's really insulting to work hard at something and have people assume you just used some nonsensical magic shortcut.

Next time you see a show, assuming you liked it, if you have an opportunity to talk to the performers afterwards, say, "You must have had to work really hard to be able to do that," and see how they react differently.

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Due to my feelings on this, you will rarely catch me coddling someone, and I occasionally come across as rude or arrogant, but I assure you, I'm not trying to be either. I just think we spend too much time and effort trying to be "nice" and "politically correct" in order to not hurt anyone's feelings. Feelings get hurt. We should focus on things that matter.

I don't know you, so I have no idea if you are or not, but I think trying not to be a jerk matters quite a bit. I also think that trying to understand why other people feel the way they do matters. You can learn a lot from that.

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