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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 01 2016, 23:54

I've been meaning to set up a distractions plog for some time. It was always going to start with some history, but now it's starting with a cautionary tale as well, and it's all because of the Rhinos.

When 3rd ed 40k came out, and I got my very first Dark Eldar, I also got the Space Marines that came with them. It eventually occurred to me that between them, the Terminators box set I'd gotten back in the Rogue Trader days, and various other models I'd acquired over the years largely via osmosis, I had the foundation of a small Space Marines army sitting in my bits box. I figured I might as well paint them, so I bought a couple more things to make them legal and got to work. I didn't quite finish them, but I came close.

Then they sat in their cases for the years when I wasn't gaming, and the years when I was playing Warmachine and Hordes.

A little less than ten years ago, before I started my Vampire Counts army, I decided that even if they never got played with again, they might as well be finished. I painted the last of them, added a couple new models because I had them and what the hell, tidied up the chapter badges and some of the other fine detail, but I didn't finish the freehand work on the Rhinos.

A friend of mine got me back into 40k a year and a half ago when he wanted to learn the game, and my marines got dusted off for him to use until he got an army of his own. I stupidly decided to rebase my old Terminators, not knowing the "base the model came with" clause would have kept them safe. Months later, they're finally attached to bases again, even if those bases still need flock and paint.

I decided to start this plog with my old Marines in order to give context to some of my more recent side projects. The Terminators had gone from being finished to being works in progress, but at least the rest of the army was done. Except the Rhinos.

So I finished the Rhinos. And while I was working on them, I thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if I used tank weathering techniques on these?" It worked out pretty well, so then I thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if I used the same tank weathering techniques on the rest of the army?"

And that, my friends, is the story of how my Space Marines army went from being finished to being nowhere remotely near finished without adding any new models to it.

These are the Marines from the 3rd edition box set.

My Howling Griffons before:

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians ToEbTyj

After:

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians TL3dS7P

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians O0wmZLS

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians Qo5KxkE

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians Rf6GsSC

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians YejZx0v

I eventually figured out that if I turned the models sideways instead of all the way around, you could actually see the chapter badges.

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians PGZ2lBy

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians 6g410hJ

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians BR3Lx6l

I am really not good at photographing models in quantities greater than 5, probably because I get very little practice on account of painting so slowly.

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians 9dUudsu

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians Jwkfdd2

One fun thing about this is that it lets me reflect on what I've learned. Painting these models the first time around was when I learned that building up translucent layers was a functional alternative to drybrushing, and decided that I hated decals. On the original models, I was laying decals down during the base colors and then shading and highlighting over them. The idea was that I'd still be able to see enough of it to use it as a template for freehand painting over it. It didn't not work, but it didn't work well, and I still had to contend with the decals wrinkling when laid over a curved surface. Also, getting the Bretonnian decals to use for the chapter badges was a problem.

When I updated the army the first time, I decided suck it up and learn to reliably paint the chapter badge by hand. I cut away most of the old decals, and redid the badges, and I think they are greatly improved.

This time around, in addition to weathering, I'm mostly adding line shading and highlights, company badges, and replacing text on plaques and scrolls so there's a font now. I'm also changing the greys on the weapons and equipment.

The old paper banners are a relic of the time. I am not at present motivated to replace them with banners sculpted from green stuff, or however you're supposed to make sculpted banners. If I update this army a third time someday in the future (dark muses forbid), maybe I'll do that then.

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Last edited by Calyptra on Sat Oct 14 2017, 17:41; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : photobucket)
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spellcheck2001
Le Maitre Macabre
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 07:04

Lol, a fatal error my friend. Once you get to the end of the first re-paint you will be ready to start on the first squad again as you will have learnt so much over the whole process Very Happy

They are looking really good though. I really like the weathering on the rhino especially and the dirtying of them overall really makes them more realistic & gritty (if super human dudes in power armour can be realistic Wink ).

What basing did you go for on the terminators? I would love to see an updated scheme for their bases, as I think that it does let them down a little (it might be that I am comparing them to the stellar work you did on your wrack basing though).

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Calyptra
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 07:38

Yeah, the bases are utterly bland. I whipped up a test base to try gluing things to, in the hopes that I could spruce them up by adding something, as opposed to redoing them completely, which is not on the menu. I tried static grass and a couple different types of sand/gravel, and I didn't like any of it. I still need to give lichen a shot though, I think that might work.

The Terminators' new bases are my first attempt at cork basing. At present, I've gotten as far as sticking the cork to the base and the Terminators to the cork, so I don't really know what the finished product will look like yet.

Really, I just want to get these out of the way so I can go back to working on Dark Eldar. Which is why I'm painting Super Dungeon Explore models right now. Suspect

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 09:35

I have a huge amount of respect for anyone painting their figures even partially yellow so hat's off to you sir! Very nice looking army. Back in the dim distant past I met a guy called Fred Reed who painted up what was possibly the first ever Howling Griffons army, back in 2e days. It was showcased in White Dwarf and looked amazing. I remember him telling me that if he had his time again he'd pick almost any other chapter as long as they weren't yellow!

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians 39015594.HowlingGriffonFredReed

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 14:47

I remember that White Dwarf. There are older references to the Griffons, but yeah, that might be the first actual army.

Of course, mine might be the third or something. Smile There's a few more out there on the internet now, which is pretty cool. There are some details on the Howling Griffons that contradict one another, depending on which White Dwarf or codex you're looking at. Even the chapter badge is inconsistent; it's always a griffon rampant, but there's an older, sleeker version (what I used) and a newer, fluffy design. And there's also the Badab War books, in which I guess Forge World kind of just does its own thing (apparently there's an all-black Howling Griffons color scheme in there). It's always really interesting to see how different people interpret the chapter, or trouble shoot all the complications that come with them.

Like: the Griffons chapter badge is on the red, left shoulder. But Terminators have their chapter badge on the right. So do Howling Griffons Terminators wear their chapter badge on yellow, or do they reverse the quartering? (I reversed the quartering, to keep the badge on red.)

I have zero problems painting yellow. I am not Green Lantern.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 15:26

I remember Fred Reed, his prize for something was one of the first ever Thunderhawk gunships they did in metal for the ultramarines chapter display. Crazy guy not only assembled the whole thing without instructions (as there weren't any) but he also converted the whole thing to be Abaddon's personal transport!

As per the other comments, kudos to you sir for painting something yellow, and I'm not at all surprised you don't have problems any more. Any chance of you sharing your technique?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 15:43

Yeah, I saw that Thunderhawk and it looked amazing (and weighed a ton!)

I actually came this >< close to playtesting 3rd edition (yes, they did actually do playtesting back in the day!) against Fred's Howling Griffons but had to leave my mate's house where I was staying a day earlier than expected so had to bail on the game Sad

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 15:57

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Yeah, I saw that Thunderhawk and it looked amazing (and weighed a ton!)

I actually came this >< close to playtesting 3rd edition (yes, they did actually do playtesting back in the day!) against Fred's Howling Griffons but had to leave my mate's house where I was staying a day earlier than expected so had to bail on the game Sad

Gutting!

We've actually got a former playtester attending our club now on a reasonably regular basis - he's a top bloke, though as you can imagine as a former top level player his lists are nails to beat, he's only lost one game so far.

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 17:10

This is great! I need more oldhammer discussions in my plogs.

(Not sure if "oldhammer" is the right word. There doesn't seem to be an agreed upon definition. I think I'm just using it to mean "back in my day," 1st-3rd editions.)

Regarding painting yellow: I think it's just a matter of approach and, to a certain extent, expectations for how paint works. I'll try to explain what I mean by that, but I can also put together a tutorial if you'd like. Just ask.

As I understand it, the problem people have with yellow is its translucency. As such, it's difficult to get a uniform base coat, and it's difficult to touch up mistakes. If there's more to it than that, please let me know! I was honestly surprised the first time I heard people complain about painting yellow, so there may be other issues I don't know about.

All paint is translucent, to varying degrees. In all sincerity, this is not a bug; it's a feature. Each coat of paint will be modified by the coat under it, and this is awesome, because it lets you achieve all sorts of effects. Also, multiple translucent layers mean that light actually bounces around in there a bit before it reemerges, so you can get a depth and luminosity of color that isn't otherwise possible. This is part of why oil paintings look the way they do.

I prime nearly all my models white. Occasionally I prime a model black because I'm going to be painting it mostly black anyway, but in those cases I find that I need to paint a white undercoat onto the non-black parts of the model before I can proceed. Most yellow paints I've used will give you even coverage with a single coat on white primer, but sometimes you'll have to give it a second. When you make mistakes, touching them up will depend on the adjacent color. If it's a dark or contrasting color (blue, purple, black, metalics), you may need to touch up with white before going in with more yellow. Light or complimentary colors, like browns and reds, can typically just be gone over with more yellow.

I find that yellow washes, like red, are typically not dark enough. You can darken a color by mixing from directly across the color wheel, so the way to darken yellow is with purple. Sparingly.

For highlighting, you can just build up translucent layers on the raised surfaces.

It literally just occurred to me that drybrushing wouldn't work very well here. Is that part of the problem? Don't drybrush. Just paint the highlights on. The edges of your brush strokes won't be sharp (translucency!) so you don't even need to be terribly precise. Just give it a few passes.

That's if you're highlighting yellow with more yellow. You can also highlight yellow with yellow mixed with white. White tends to be a bit more opaque, so if you want sharp line highlights, this would be the way to go.

Touching up mistakes in the later stages is a little trickier, because yellow on white will look very different from yellow on layers of other yellow. Instead undercoat the correction with something else, like grey or brown. You may need to experiment; lots of things will work fine.

Finally, and I don't know if this is helpful, when I started updating the models, I basically outlined everything to make all the joints and divisions between armor plates stand out. For the yellow, I used a mix of Vallejo's Leather Brown (which looks like GW's old Snakebite Leather) and a little black. There were also places where I felt the yellow was insufficiently shaded, and I just painted them Leather Brown. Snakebite Leather/Leather Brown is basically just Raw Sienna (probably; hobby paints don't tell you what the actual pigments are), and it's great for getting the mid-dark tones with yellows.

I hope that helps! But again, if you'd like an actual tutorial, I'm happy to oblige.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 19:29

That helps certainly, I tended to basecoat yellow areas with flesh tones to try and build some shading under the yellow, I guess really I should then have gone back over the majority with white to get the shade variation.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 02 2016, 21:30

@spellcheck2001 wrote:
Lol, a fatal error my friend. Once you get to the end of the first re-paint you will be ready to start on the first squad again as you will have learnt so much over the whole process Very Happy

I'm fighting the urge to repaint my large Space Wolves army, about 1,500pts worth is from my 2nd edition SW's army that I have already repainted twice....This would be the third complete army repaint for them. I just can't bring myself to part with them and love giving them completely new paint.

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 14 2017, 17:54

Ok, that's another one of my painting logs that's kicked the photobucket.

While I'm here, update!

Previously, the second squad was led by an old 2nd ed model that I've always really liked... but which was noticeably smaller than the 3rd ed Marines he led. That always irritated me, so I slapped together a new brother-sergeant, and did a little green stuff work on him so he could be fancy.

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians NDf7SVP

And here's the fancy Bro-Sarge with paint and friends.

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians Tfcd95S

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians TNliQZh

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians EOcKFSk

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians 7gbv636

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians UXPQD83

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians 3LZpOmR

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians D0qi8X9

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians ZybdntJ

...crap, I forgot to take a group shot of the 2nd squad. That will happen some day. Probably.

In the meantime, here's ye olde Imperial Assassin.

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians Q6JMxyo

Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians WYTOOpw

The old paper banners are really bothering me. Their days are numbered.

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Cherrycoke
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 16 2017, 00:21

looks awesome, freehand is incredible, you're talented. Exclamation
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masamune
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PostSubject: Re: Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians   Pathetic, Round-Eared Space Barbarians I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 16 2017, 12:25

Nice freehanding & color scheme. You must be pretty petient :')

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