Reavers or Trueborne
Posts : 17
Join date : 2011-09-28
|Subject: Reavers or Trueborne Wed Sep 28 2011, 20:26|| |
for a small points army list say 1500pts and below would it be wiser to have a unit of 6 reavers with heat lances, or say a unit of 10 trueborne with 2 dark lances, because someone was telling me that truebone kabalites without a duke arent really worth it but im not exactly sure?
i was also told that for a troop choice between wychs or wracks that its not wise to have a 10 unit of both and instead to double up on either or? what are yalls though on this as i was wanting my troop selections to be CC and have my shooting in fast attack and elite choices, to give my army more of a rounded flexible feel, plus have a pain token to start with 10 wracks seems nice as well does a unit of 9 wychs with a haemonculus and he gives the wychs the pain token
what are yalls thoughts
Posts : 227
Join date : 2011-08-03
|Subject: Re: Reavers or Trueborne Wed Sep 28 2011, 21:34|| |
Trueborns can be played without the duke, and indeed playing 10 trueborn with 2 Dark Lances is not really that strong. Have you tried playing 3-4 trueborns with Blasters in Venoms with 2 splinter cannons? Those are in tournament lists for a reason.
But nonetheless the question of reavers vs Trueborn in this sense is quite a hard one to talk about, since we do not know what your list looks like. In some cases, you do not need Reavers at all, while for some other list, trueborns are non-existent. Some even mix both of them into a list, or have neither of those in their lists.
As for the Wracks, I would say that a squad of 10 wracks is okay, but they are better off being 9 men with a Haemonculus attached to them. This would allow them to have Furious Charge and with their poisoned weapons, they would hit normal marines at Initiative 5 and they can reroll their to wound rolls. In addition, the Haemonculus wwould give them a better leadership and could contribute to the total wounds in the squad. In addition, with the Haemonculus and the wrack squad carrying two liquifier guns, you would not lose much, but gain more muscle.
The wracks could also be used in a MSU style, by taking 3 of them bareboned or taking 5 with a liquifier gun in a raider or a venom.
As for the wyches, based upon my experiences they are better of in squads that are 6-8 strong. The wyches should also carry some Haywire grenades for those pesky things such as Dreadnoughts and Monoliths, and also giving them more options to charge if it comes to some situations.
Based upon your needs, I would suggest taking the Wyches over the Wracks as they have offensive grenades to allow you to charge in cover and also they have a higher initiative and a 4+ invulnerable save in close combat. Add that with Haywire grenades and a pain token and you are good to go.
The Reavers and the Trueborns would also help you in that sense.
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Join date : 2011-06-10
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|Subject: Re: Reavers or Trueborne Wed Sep 28 2011, 21:43|| |
I think Trueborns are better at both anti-mech and anti-infantry than RJBs.
Trueborn also cost more - though in a general lance per points spent are more affordable.
In the end it tends to depend on the list and the goal in mind, on average and sight unseen I would say Trueborn are the more likely competitive unit.
Trueborn do quite well both with or without the Duke - most people run them without because they use them to hunt mech and not infantry.
Posts : 100
Join date : 2011-05-29
|Subject: Re: Reavers or Trueborne Wed Sep 28 2011, 22:05|| |
Of the Duke's three buffs two in my estimation are pretty much useless. The TB buff is one of these, as the bonus to poison for the squad isn't really worth taking a character that costs so much (I could take a Haemonculus and stick in a couple of Venom squads for a little more).
Reavers are good, but are completely different than DLs as they have much less range (really, at their effective range they are 1/4 of the DL). It all depends on what else you are taking. If you are low on long range weapons, I'd take the TB with Blasters as they put out more effective fire at a slightly longer range. If you have a lot of mobile ranged weaponry but want a weapon you can trust to finish vehicles off, take the Heat Lances.
TB are also more effective at doing one thing usually since you can design them to do it (i.e. 4XBlasters or 2XSplinter Cannons and Carbines-not counting the vehicle they take), but bikes are more versatile in general while offering more late game plays in terms of objective contesting.
DL Trueborn are pretty rare because they are so static. If you can really get in your opponent's face (let's say you are running a lot of Beastpacks among other things) then they might be able to work as they will have other things to worry about, but mostly they just aren't worth it. Problems:
1-Have to walk on in DoW and thus lose an extra turn of fire
2-long range of DLs means taking more than a couple isn't worth it as it is just extra models, but that means squad is very vulnerable-taking more models causes them to end up being less cost effective, so more difficult to balance
Last edited by a1elbow on Thu Sep 29 2011, 03:15; edited 1 time in total
Posts : 467
Join date : 2011-06-12
Location : ridin' the Razor, cussin' at my Wyches
|Subject: Re: Reavers or Trueborne Wed Sep 28 2011, 22:34|| |
- Quote :
- for a small points army list say 1500pts and below would it be wiser to have a unit of 6 reavers with heat lances, or say a unit of 10 trueborne with 2 dark lances, because someone was telling me that truebone kabalites without a duke arent really worth it but im not exactly sure?
Dude. 3 Trueborn, 2 DLs. Tacking on a Venom they won't spend more than 1 turn in EVER, this is one sneaky, evil and CHEAP unit that provides both credible AT and efficient AI.
That said they can't be directly compared to Reavers. Imho those are best used to threaten rear armor and sow chaos, so the respective unit's roles aren't really interchangeable.
~ Drazhar, Master of Blades
Hierarch of Tactica
Posts : 2587
Join date : 2011-08-10
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|Subject: Re: Reavers or Trueborne Thu Sep 29 2011, 16:56|| |
Like said they both offer different things. Trueborn have the luxery of being able to talior to different roles, either AI or AT. AI its carbines and cannons all day, and maybe duke. In the AT deparment with have the 3 TB with 2 lance, or the 3~4 TB with blaster, both of these are used differently, and both can be effective.
Reavers, while can be able to tailor towards either AI or AT, have a different role. They are relatively tough(when used right) and are cheap, but with an Heat Lance or Blaster, they can distract an opponent from the rest of your force. As with the caltrops and gravtalon, they just zoom around and shred infantry, just overall being a nusence.
They both have different roles, so they cant be compared.
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Posts : 236
Join date : 2011-07-27
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|Subject: Re: Reavers or Trueborne Thu Sep 29 2011, 17:50|| |
Reavers are great for AI (havent had the pleasure of using them for AT yet)
I have my Reavers pop out of a WWP and caltrap troop units. This is useful if you need to clear out an objective or if you want to hita unit that your opponent thinks is safe. I will say this though once you wipe a unit by running them over, they do become a target.
In my 1500pt list I run 9 reavers 3 with heat lances and 3 with caltraps
I wanted the option of ether taking out troops or hitting a vehicle unfortunately when i do one or the other they don't last since my opponent is pissed at them. So when you choose your target ether make the lose of it be really painful to your opponent or really really smart.
4 Blaster born in a venom is nice since it gives the unit more speed to get into better positions for taking out tanks and such also if they survive an explosion then there able to just find cover and hold there area
As for Wracks you ether want them popping out of a WWP or transported around 10 in a squad with at least one liquifire. That way they are in your opponents face and there not getting shot up as they try to get in there.
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|Subject: Re: Reavers or Trueborne || |
Reavers or Trueborne