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BlckRven
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PostSubject: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 25, 2011 4:32 pm

So purely hypothetical...

If the Heamonculi are able to regenerate a a complete Archon from just his hand, if his will is strong enough. Would it be possible to dupe him if the Archon had an extremely high will?

like: the one Archon regenerates a hand to his body, the other regenerates a body to his hand... I wonder

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Deneris
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 25, 2011 5:21 pm

So you'd have two of the same Archon? It's possible, but I imagine they pay the haemonculi extremely well so that things like this don't happen...

That, or one or the other kills the other...
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Hydra
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2011 2:02 am

I guess in the dark cellars all i possible,

but

essential for growing something back is, that in the piece left, there is some part of the soul, which is willing to grow back the rest.

So the question is: Can you split a soul?

Combining what the fluff has to say about souls, it is rather possible to merge souls together (in the warp to create a demon), but splitting a souls... i don't know, i am willing to doubt that.
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Phototoxin
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2011 6:05 am

Could be a cool concept for a 'mirror' type kabal - or a solar/lunar cult. Archons who are twins but share the same memories...
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Ciirian
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2011 6:27 am

I'd imagine that if you could grow multiples of the same Archon with thoughts/memories, it would be possible for the Haemonculus doing the growing could kill the real Archon and put in a "puppet".

Just a thought I had
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2011 7:04 am

But there are soulless humans (Culexus Assasins. Note only humans can be borned with "Pariah Gene", however if You can strip/split soul "mechanically"...). You apparently don't need soul (presence in the warp) to live, so probably You wil be fine with only part of it.
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Cailos
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2011 7:24 am

@Local_Ork wrote:
But there are soulless humans (Culexus Assasins. Note only humans can be borned with "Pariah Gene", however if You can strip/split soul "mechanically"...). You apparently don't need soul (presence in the warp) to live, so probably You wil be fine with only part of it.
If the Dark Eldar knew how to do this they would have done it to exit from She Who Thrists long ago.
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GrenAcid
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2011 2:13 pm

@Cailos wrote:
@Local_Ork wrote:
But there are soulless humans (Culexus Assasins. Note only humans can be borned with "Pariah Gene", however if You can strip/split soul "mechanically"...). You apparently don't need soul (presence in the warp) to live, so probably You wil be fine with only part of it.
If the Dark Eldar knew how to do this they would have done it to exit from She Who Thrists long ago.

But then no trill of joy/pain/happines ect....being soules would be living hell tho them so used to strong emotions.

But Im with Hydra on that, spliting souls sounds too god-like ability to me.
BTW where you get that part where only humans can be pariahs?

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 10:15 am

Some xenos, like the Slaught are also psychic nulls (aka. pariahs). Technically nulls aren't completely soulless, but their warp presense has a negative value (ie. if you imagine the warp presense of a being to be a light source, a null's warp presence is an area of darkness, darker than the surrounding warp space).

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2011 5:41 am

Having no soul doesn't make you feel nothing, it just makes you an anti-psyker, pretty much. As others have said though, I disagree with it because otherwise the Dark Eldar have a relatively easy escape from the Thirst.

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GrenAcid
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2011 6:46 am

@Aroshamash wrote:
Having no soul doesn't make you feel nothing, it just makes you an anti-psyker, pretty much. As others have said though, I disagree with it because otherwise the Dark Eldar have a relatively easy escape from the Thirst.

Warp=sea of emotions.

no soul=no emotions.

I cant remember for sure but in "nemesis" there was culexus assasin and she didnt betray any signs of emotions....even when she died.

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Cailos
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2011 6:49 am

@GrenAcid wrote:
@Aroshamash wrote:
Having no soul doesn't make you feel nothing, it just makes you an anti-psyker, pretty much. As others have said though, I disagree with it because otherwise the Dark Eldar have a relatively easy escape from the Thirst.

Warp=sea of emotions.

no soul=no emotions.

I cant remember for sure but in "nemesis" there was culexus assasin and she didnt betray any signs of emotions....even when she died.
I think that has more to do with her being trained as an assassin. In the Esienhorn series of books, he has a group of people that he used that were blanks and they had emotions and everything just psyker powers would fizzle and stuff around them.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2011 7:06 am

I wonder if "Alpharius Omegon" story would be relevant.
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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2011 9:11 pm

As others have said, you've got one source about a trained assassin, who happens to be a pariah, and who feels no emotions, compared to every other source making no mention of pariahs feeling less emotions. Also, to go by your example, a psyker would feel greater emotions, something that doesn't happen. Before you start, yes, the Eldar have stronget emotions than humans, but that's not stated to be caused by their psychic ability.
Comparatively, the Emperor, one of the most powerfully psychic beings ever, displays almost no emotions.

Lastly, while the Warp is indeed the "sea of souls", you'll notice that it's never called the "sea of emotions", in any source. It is shaped by our emotions, but we don't depend on the Warp for emotions. It can, admittedly, promote extremes of emotions by the influence of the warp-powers, such as Khorne inspiring Rage in people, but people don't depend on the warp-god of happiness to feel good about stuff. Nothing has ever indicated that even slightly in the background. You're taking an existing connection (although connected in a different way than is relevant), and stretching it to mean something completely different.

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GrenAcid
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 12, 2011 5:03 pm

Quote :
As others have said, you've got one source about a trained assassin, who happens to be a pariah,
Well, find another source with culexus with emotions, to prove me wrong.

Quote :
Also, to go by your example, a psyker would feel greater emotions, something that doesn't happen.
Hmmm...you clearly miss that part about psykers in ships on orbit that could feel pain/fear of those exterminated on planet surface. Now we have to define greater emotions.
Quote :
Comparatively, the Emperor, one of the most powerfully psychic beings ever, displays almost no emotions.
Invalid, he was strongest psyker in galaxy....he could look like yoda and even primarchs would see him as they did.

Quote :
Lastly, while the Warp is indeed the "sea of souls", you'll notice that it's never called the "sea of emotions"
Oh you right, they never call it like that....but I recall somthing like "tides of rage" "pools of fear".
Quote :
It is shaped by our emotions, but we don't depend on the Warp for emotions.
Its working both ways, we can shape it just as it shape us, second way might be more sophisticated- damn I sound like Eldar Razz

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 12:06 am

@GrenAcid wrote:

Well, find another source with culexus with emotions, to prove me wrong.
Eisenhorn, has numerous pariahs, all of which feel emotions. Ravenor, has a pariah, who feels emotions. The Caiphas Cain series has Jurgen, a pariah, who feels emotions. Dark Heresy has rules for pariahs, and makes no mention of a lack of emotions, something that would be included in a role-playing game. Lexicanum makes no mention of pariahs having no emotions.


Quote :

Hmmm...U clearly miss that part about psykers in ships on orbit that could feel pain/fear of those exterminated on planet surface. Now we have to define greater emotions.
Congratulations, you've shown that psykers can be telepathic. Unfortunately for you, that means crud all to what we're discussing. Now, show me where it says psykers have stronger emotions, in the same way Eldar have stronger emotions. You can't, as not one description of psykers has ever mentioned them feeling stronger emotions than anyone else. Just to clear this up, this is their own emotions, not the emotions of others.

Quote :
Invalid, he was strongest psyker in galaxy....he could look like yoda and even primarchs would see him as they did.
Um, what? I'm arguing that according to your logic, that warp=emotions, the Emperor, being such a strong psyker, should be overcome with depression at the slightest setback, as his feelings of sadness are so overwhelmingly strong. After all, if it works in the negative with Pariahs, it should work in the positive with psykers.

Quote :

Its working both ways, we can shape it just as it shape us, second way might be more sophisticated- damn I sound like Eldar Razz
Yes, it does shape us, but it's never once been described as reacting in the way you interpret it. I'll say it again, you've found one source, which features a temple assassin who feels no emotions, who so happens to be a Pariah, and attributed the lack of emotions to them being a Pariah. However, what you've ignored is that all Temple Assassins are trained to be emotionless, and that the Pariah status has nothing to do with it. It is coincidental. Show me a single source backing up your position, other than your current coincidental 'evidence'. Pariahs have never been stated to be what you say they are, and it's going to take a lot more than "look, this Pariah, who was also a hardened, callous hypno-indoctrinated killer, feels no emotions! That means all pariahs must feel no emotions!"

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GrenAcid
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 4:04 am

Quote :
Eisenhorn, has numerous pariahs, all of which feel emotions. Ravenor, has a pariah, who feels emotions. The Caiphas Cain series has Jurgen, a pariah, who feels emotions. Dark Heresy has rules for pariahs, and makes no mention of a lack of emotions, something that would be included in a role-playing game. Lexicanum makes no mention of pariahs having no emotions.
+1

As for rest....its open till we get some clear evidence for one way or another.

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: hypothetical ....   hypothetical .... I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 4:44 am

If He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, can split his soul.....anywho XD

I think the part in the fluff says, that "the soul holds tight on that last fingertip, to survive", well i guess it's just a question wether the soul would also hold tight to the other fingertip, just to be on the save side ;-)

I have implemented exactly this problem in my Fluff. An Dracon wanted to kill his Boss, by being there twice, so he went to the haemoculi and left a thumb there, and then faked his death on a raid. So the haemonculi resurrected him again with his thumb, but the haemonculi noticed what was happening, and turned both dracons into Taloi. Thats the reason i have two of them XD

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