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 IC and squads movement

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Local_Ork
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Local_Ork

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PostSubject: IC and squads movement   IC and squads movement I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 23 2011, 15:26

Hello!

I'm toying with WWP army idea (2xWWP Haemi + 2x10 Scourges with 4 weapons, either SC or Blasters [can't decide]) and I have following question:

If I deploy IC with unit, then on turn 1 I'll leave that unit (ie. I move Haemi first, then Scourges), how would fat this unit be allowed to move?

Speed of IC (slowest model at beginning of their turn in this case) or their normal speed (12")?



I'm pretty sure that second (12" for Scourges, 6" for Haemi) is right but want to ask first.




I've figured out that Scourges with FNP and possibly cover may be quite nasty WWP guardians (I mean... 18 + 4 SC would scare the hell out of Infantry units) that also fill fluff requirement.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: IC and squads movement   IC and squads movement I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 23 2011, 15:42

This is actually a hotly debated subject.

Per the rules - officially you don't stop being part of the unit till the end of the movement phase, so the unit would still be affected by your slower movement.

I have never seen anyone enforce this rule during a tournament however. My advice - ask the TO.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: IC and squads movement   IC and squads movement I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 23 2011, 15:50

And this is why I'm not sure about that one.

"Slingshot" trick made me wonder about that one... http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2011/09/slingshot-how-to/

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: IC and squads movement   IC and squads movement I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 23 2011, 19:29

You'll note that there is a lot of debate about the legality of that move.

The basic core debate is this - at what point is an IC separated from a unit?

Some argue, that as soon as you intend to separate, that you are separated.
Others argue that, it is not until you break coherency.
The RAW tends to support the latter interpretation.
Everyone I've ever gamed with (besides one particular troll) supports the first.
Hence my wishy-washy answer Wink

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PostSubject: Re: IC and squads movement   IC and squads movement I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 23 2011, 21:43

BRB p.48 wrote:

(...)
• While an independent character is part of a unit,
he must obey the usual coherency rules. The
combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of
the slowest model while they stay together.(...)
• An independent character can leave a unit during
the Movement phase by moving out of coherency
distance with it.
• If an independent character moves and joins or
leaves a unit that did not move, the character
counts as having moved in the ensuing Shooting
phase, but the unit does not.
(...)

There is, in my eyes, at least, only one way to interpret this.
1.: The IC can leave a unit, but not the other way round.
4.: As long as an IC is part of a unit, it has to obey cohereny.
3.: As long as an IC is part of a unit, they all move at the speed, of the slowest part.
4.: The IC leaves the unit, the moment it moves out of coherency distance.
5.: The Unit left counts as not having moved.

ergo

If you move an IC more than 2" away of a unit, he leaves this unit instantly and this unit does count as not having moved and may move on it's own, with their full movement distance.

So, why does an IC, that moves out of coherency, count as leaving the unit, immediately?
Because if this was not so, it couldn't move out of coherency, because as long as it is part of a unit it has to obey coherency and to leave, it has to break coherency, so the moment of leaving must be before it breaks coherency.
The restriction of moving at the slower speed does only apply while they are joined, not after.


P.S.:
By the way, I haven't read all of the article, and so don't know if it's important for the outcome, but the author's claim that it's chaeting to join a unit by moving it into 2" of an IC, is wrong.
Because:
BRB p.48 wrote:

• In order to join a unit, an independent character
simply has to move so that he is within the 2"
coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of
their Movement phase...
So as long as the IC is moved in a way, that it is within 2" of the unit at the end of the movement phase it joins the unit. This does not entail, that the unit can't move within 2".

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PostSubject: Re: IC and squads movement   IC and squads movement I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 23 2011, 22:35

I personally support that interpretation, but there's not supportable clarity to it in my opinion. The moment of coherency break is just as likely to be the moment of departure as the moment of begining to move - and quite frankly is more RAW supported that it is, as the dictates for leaving a unit is once coherency is broken, not once you decide that you will break coherency.

As far as Stelek's thing - his move doesn't work because, per the rules, an IC can only join one unit when it is in position to join two - presuming I understand exactly what he was on about. That said, if he used the method where end of the turn allows joining - his method could still work fine, he'd just join them in a different order - the move itself is legal...it's just depending on how you think the rules work it obligates you to play it differently.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: IC and squads movement   IC and squads movement I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 23 2011, 23:44

Ok, so I guess best bet would be asking how people resolve that in my area...

Thanks.

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