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colinsherlow
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 18:17

1750pts:

Grotesquerie:
Haemonculus w/ Scissorhands, Stinger Pistol (pew pew!), Vexator Mask, Sindriq's Sump (Warlord)
4 Grotesques, Aberration w/ Scissorhands
- Raider w/ Dark Lance
3 Grotesques
- Raider w/ Dark Lance

RSR Detachment:
Lhamaean
- Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
Lhamaean
- Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
4 Incubi w/ Klaivex
- Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster
- Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster
- Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
Razorwing Jetfighter
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire Blaster
5 Scourges w/ 4x Heat Lance
3 Reavers w/ Cluster Caltrops, Heat Lance
3 Reavers w/ Cluster Caltrops, Heat Lance
3 Reavers w/ Cluster Caltrops, Heat Lance
Ravager w/ 3x Dark Lance

The Haemonculus can join either the Incubi or one of the Grotesque units. The heat lance scourges will attempt to deep strike in melta range of a suitable target.

I was actually planning to have 2 minimum grotesque squads, but couldn't find anything else to do with the 35pts. Any suggestions for better investments? Neutral

Also, any other thoughts or suggestions?


Last edited by The Shredder on Wed Aug 26 2015, 19:42; edited 1 time in total
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 19:32

Why only minimum size grotesques? I used big squads last game against Marines and they rocked! Otherwise I'd drop the Grotesque and add blasters to the squads.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 19:44

CptMetal wrote:
Why only minimum size grotesques? I used big squads last game against Marines and they rocked! Otherwise I'd drop the Grotesque and add blasters to the squads.

Ah, apologies, they were supposed to have blasters already - I just forgot to write it. Embarassed

Minimum units was in the hope that they might draw a bit less fire. And also because I try to avoid concentrating points where possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 20:31

In general I like it and I'm diggin the msu reavers. Those lil dudes are excellent for popping scoring pods btw.. people always forget that pods sustain an immobilized result on arrival and are open topped making them incredibly easy to kill with heat lances.

Anyway it's much harder to build an effective combat centric force than straight ranged but I think you've accomplished a decent one and I'm actually in a similar ballpark, in a way.

On the grot formation I know I'm in the minority here and its meta dependent too but scissorhands I find very very meh.
Lets be real they ain't reliably threatening vehicles and especially not walkers. The less than 0.5 chance of a rend isn't answering teq either although their rampage volume will. But back on track my point is after trying every which way my best success is either bare no abby at all, or else an abby with agonizer for a pseudo ork warboss. That guy is straight beast mode. Pretty funny when people complain about a unit champ.
Both builds work fine, just depends on what your after but I'd personally avoid the scissorhand.

The haemie I actually had to look up the stinger pistol lol. Here I also prefer agonizer but I like the flesh gauntlet too as a budget option, both more than scissorhand. Again very low odds of a rend compounded with low strength = no rerolls to wound. Considering how my combats go I like to either smash marines and worse before they strike or have a chance at ID before that IC/MC etc swings.

Just some thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 20:35

Agoniser on a high S model, whose default weapon has an ID on 6 rule, is probably the most terrible 'advice' I've ever heard. Footslogging wyches is at least 1000 times better than taking agoniser on an abberation.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 21:11

Brom wrote:
In general I like it and I'm diggin the msu reavers. Those lil dudes are excellent for popping scoring pods btw.. people always forget that pods sustain an immobilized result on arrival and are open topped making them incredibly easy to kill with heat lances.

Anyway it's much harder to build an effective combat centric force than straight ranged but I think you've accomplished a decent one and I'm actually in a similar ballpark, in a way.

On the grot formation I know I'm in the minority here and its meta dependent too but scissorhands I find very very meh.
Lets be real they ain't reliably threatening vehicles and especially not walkers. The less than 0.5 chance of a rend isn't answering teq either although their rampage volume will. But back on track my point is after trying every which way my best success is either bare no abby at all, or else an abby with agonizer for a pseudo ork warboss. That guy is straight beast mode. Pretty funny when people complain about a unit champ.
Both builds work fine, just depends on what your after but I'd personally avoid the scissorhand.

Thanks for your input. Yeah, Scissorhands aren't great. I think I take them mainly because I don't like being completely defenceless against walkers, even though the difference is marginal. If I removed them, is there anything in particular you'd suggest spending the 10pts on? Maybe an Aberration for the second Grot unit?

Agoniser on the Aberration is certainly an interesting idea. It's something I keep meaning to try, but usually don't have points for.

Brom wrote:

The haemie I actually had to look up the stinger pistol lol. Here I also prefer agonizer but I like the flesh gauntlet too as a budget option, both more than scissorhand. Again very low odds of a rend compounded with low strength = no rerolls to wound. Considering how my combats go I like to either smash marines and worse before they strike or have a chance at ID before that IC/MC etc swings.

Just some thoughts.  

I know what you mean regarding scissorhands, but I don't really see why a Flesh Gauntlet would be any better - as it's just as reliant on 6s.  Question

With regard to Agonisers, the reason I don't take them on Haemonculi is twofold - firstly because they cost 150% more than scissorhands, and secondly because AP3 gets on my nerves. Every time I take an Archon with an Agoniser or Huskblade I end up looking at a sea of 2+ saves.  Sad  

It also just feels way overpriced in general (especially on a Haemonculus).

I really appreciate your advice though. Thanks. Smile

Kinjallo wrote:
Agoniser on a high S model, whose default weapon has an ID on 6 rule, is probably the most terrible 'advice' I've ever heard. Footslogging wyches is at least 1000 times better than taking agoniser on an abberation.

But why?

High strength means you're wounding marines on 3s with rerolls. A 70pt Aberration with an agoniser is probably more dangerous and more survivable than a 105pt Archon with Agoniser and Clone Field. Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 21:15

I'm not sure about the Incubi squad. You already have 2 CC squad with your grotesques, plus your jetbikes. If you want a TEQ fighting squad, maybe add a succubus to 1 grot squad. Or lance them.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 21:39

dumpeal wrote:
I'm not sure about the Incubi squad. You already have 2 CC squad with your grotesques, plus your jetbikes. If you want a TEQ fighting squad, maybe add a succubus to 1 grot squad. Or lance them.

Hmm, perhaps you're right. I just thought it might be fun to use the coven Haemonculus in a unit from the DE book, and Incubi seemed like the obvious choice.

One thing though - I don't really see my Jetbikes as melee units. They're more there to hunt vehicles. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 22:18

Quote :
Agoniser on a high S model, whose default weapon has an ID on 6 rule, is probably the most terrible 'advice' I've ever heard. Footslogging wyches is at least 1000 times better than taking agoniser on an abberation.
First the abby doesn't lose the ID weapon fyi it exchanges the ccw so both are at its disposal. Second its obvious you haven't tried it or you wouldn't be posting things like this. With an agonizer the aberration becomes the most dangerous cc model in the book. It will routinely remove 4-5 models a turn of anything not 2+ which is almost everything.

On 2+ in general there really isn't that much of it around. ICs and terminators and a few MCs. Now if your opponents are spamming TDA for some reason then by all means but usually these units are sorted out by ranged or as a last resort in cc in which case volume of attacks (and ID for MCs) does more than rending all day. Besides grots purpose is not dealing with heavy armoured units.

Quote :
Thanks for your input. Yeah, Scissorhands aren't great. I think I take them mainly because I don't like being completely defenceless against walkers, even though the difference is marginal. If I removed them, is there anything in particular you'd suggest spending the 10pts on? Maybe an Aberration for the second Grot unit?

Agoniser on the Aberration is certainly an interesting idea. It's something I keep meaning to try, but usually don't have points for.
Thats the one downside to the coven PFP and its a small cornercase one.. fearless traps you in combat regardless of 'our weapons are useless' rule. That said its still a bad place to be even with 2 scissorhands.

I say flesh gauntlet over scissors on the haemie because in those instances a single 6 can remove the model where a single rending won't. NOT saying either is where you wanna be.. my preference is agonizer > flesh gauntlet > 2 ccw > scissorhand.
Otoh slapping down say.. a few death company before they even strike due to ap 3 is pure gold.

While I do agree on the incubi sentiment I say let them stay. You have a fleeting haemie giving fnp and obsorbing overwatch and they saturate your list that little bit more for combat units. Plus they are super cool. I had my best performance with mine actually come against combat daemons btw.. thought they would be trash. Ended up slaughtering everything they came across including a few chariots and contesting an objective ftw. They've since become known as 'the sadists'.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 22:40

Kinjallo wrote:
Agoniser on a high S model, whose default weapon has an ID on 6 rule, is probably the most terrible 'advice' I've ever heard. Footslogging wyches is at least 1000 times better than taking agoniser on an abberation.

My Aberration with Agoniser usually murders 6-8 Marines (out of a 10 man squad) by himself. He does this every time he gets into close combat. Once Zealot (Coven PfP) kicks in, you have a sergeant equivalent that re-rolls wounds and hits in the first round of combat. The Abbie is the best CC character the Dark Eldar have.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 22:43

The Shredder wrote:
dumpeal wrote:
I'm not sure about the Incubi squad. You already have 2 CC squad with your grotesques, plus your jetbikes. If you want a TEQ fighting squad, maybe add a succubus to 1 grot squad. Or lance them.

Hmm, perhaps you're right. I just thought it might be fun to use the coven Haemonculus in a unit from the DE book, and Incubi seemed like the obvious choice.

One thing though - I don't really see my Jetbikes as melee units. They're more there to hunt vehicles. Razz

I've found that Incubi complement Grots pretty well because they can handle the one thing that Grots have a hard time with: 2+ armor saves. I've also used them as a good finisher to assist Grots. I'll get the Grots stuck in against a big/tough unit, and then the next turn, I'll charge in with the Incubi to finish off the opponent. So the Grots fix the enemy in place long enough for the Incubi to get there and deal the killing blow.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 22:51

Sweetbacon- We're on the exact same page brother. I forgot to mention zealot increases the abby's insanity. It turns into jason voorhees.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 23:40

Brom wrote:

Thats the one downside to the coven PFP and its a small cornercase one.. fearless traps you in combat regardless of 'our weapons are useless' rule. That said its still a bad place to be even with 2 scissorhands.

Tbh, I think even without Fearless they'd be pretty screwed. S10 and Grotesques don't mix. silent

Brom wrote:

I say flesh gauntlet over scissors on the haemie because in those instances a single 6 can remove the model where a single rending won't. NOT saying either is where you wanna be.. my preference is agonizer > flesh gauntlet > 2 ccw > scissorhand.
Otoh slapping down say.. a few death company before they even strike due to ap 3 is pure gold.

Hmm, perhaps we have different experiences. I generally find Instant Death with no AP to be a waste of time. I've had a Dark Artisan with Ichor injector absolutely mince Nob squads, but I can't say the same of Urien or Grotesque squads. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but all my ID wounds seem to just bounce off the enemy armour. Crying or Very sad

The other aspect is that Flesh Gauntlet is better against ICs, but the most I want my Haemonculus fighting is sergeants. Granted, the Agoniser would probably be better for that - but if I find the points for that then I'd probably be better off giving it to the Aberration instead. I suspect that he'll accomplish far more with it than my Haemonculus. Wink

One thing though - do you really think that 4+ Poison and Rending for 10pts is worse than saving the points and relying purely on S3 attacks? Question

Brom wrote:

While I do agree on the incubi sentiment I say let them stay. You have a fleeting haemie giving fnp and obsorbing overwatch and they saturate your list that little bit more for combat units. Plus they are super cool. I had my best performance with mine actually come against combat daemons btw.. thought they would be trash. Ended up slaughtering everything they came across including a few chariots and contesting an objective ftw. They've since become known as 'the sadists'.

Hah, awsome!

To be honest, it's actually very rare for me to use Incubi - I usually employ either Coven melee units, or none whatsoever (Jetbikes notwithstanding). So, this will be something of a new experience for me. I'm rather hoping that 2 grotesque units will let them slip under the radar.

Do you have any tips for running Incubi?

sweetbacon wrote:
I've found that Incubi complement Grots pretty well because they can handle the one thing that Grots have a hard time with:  2+ armor saves.  I've also used them as a good finisher to assist Grots.  I'll get the Grots stuck in against a big/tough unit, and then the next turn, I'll charge in with the Incubi to finish off the opponent.  So the Grots fix the enemy in place long enough for the Incubi to get there and deal the killing blow.  

That's a good idea. If my opponent has any particularly tough units, I'll give it a go.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 23:50

I have come to love Grots. I used to use large units with WWP, but found they often got stranded. I prefer units of 3-4 in Raiders now. They rock. When I take an aberration I prefer the agoniser though. Gotta make sure you kill them armoured units nice and dead.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 26 2015, 23:56

Quote :
One thing though - do you really think that 4+ Poison and Rending for 10pts is worse than saving the points and relying purely on S3 attacks?  
I honestly can't say for certain but its essentially the same thing on 5/6 hits for 10 pts less.. so maybe I should really be putting 2 ccw's before the gauntlets in my rating lol. Edit- forgot to say this is from the standpoint of the sump that can confer poison.. without out it obviously no.

On incubi I'll second what bacon said.
I tend to run mine on the fringes and I will also use things like lone fiends or really anything disposable I have to soak overwatch for them. I also like to use them as a counter punch unit which is where they shine. Anything locked in combat is usually dead meat if your incubi can get there. So be patient. Scooting into someones back yard and setting them up takes a little finesse. Also don't be escared of charging into cover against non melee specialists.

I've used about every squad size imaginable but a single unit of 5 is my best all round performer. 2x3 and 2x4 are both nice too though. Thing is they are dirt cheap as assault specialists go and people don't like popping skimmers to see ap2 meqs pop out the wreckage and counter charge so they are good at making pod armies think twice, without breaking the bank.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 27 2015, 00:01

colinsherlow wrote:
I have come to love Grots. I used to use large units with  WWP, but found they often got stranded. I prefer units of 3-4 in Raiders now. They rock. When I take an aberration I prefer the agoniser though. Gotta make sure you kill them armoured units nice and dead.

I'm using 3-4 in a venom because I don't have enough models for big units.  Razz

I'll see if I can find the points to give an agoniser to at least one of the Aberrations. Do you think it would be worth dropping a Grotesque for this?

Brom wrote:
Quote :
One thing though - do you really think that 4+ Poison and Rending for 10pts is worse than saving the points and relying purely on S3 attacks?  
I honestly can't say for certain but its essentially the same thing on 5/6 hits for 10 pts less.. so maybe I should really be putting 2 ccw's before the gauntlets in my rating lol.

Doesn't it depend on the target's toughness though?

I mean, 2 CCWs need 5s to wound T4 and 6s to wound T5 bikers and such - whilst Scissorhands at least mean you only ever need 4s to wound.

Brom wrote:

On incubi I'll second what bacon said.
I tend to run mine on the fringes and I will also use things like lone fiends or really anything disposable I have to soak overwatch for them. I also like to use them as a counter punch unit which is where they shine. Anything locked in combat is usually dead meat if your incubi can get there.

That's a good point regarding overwatch - I might have just found a use for those Lhamaeans. Twisted Evil

Brom wrote:

I've used about every squad size imaginable but a single unit of 5 is my best all round performer. 2x3 and 2x4 are both nice too though. Thing is they are dirt cheap as assault specialists go and people don't like popping skimmers to see ap2 meqs pop out the wreckage and counter charge so they are good at making pod armies think twice, without breaking the bank.  

Do you think it would be worth taking an extra Incubi and swapping out the Venom for a Raider? Or, is 4 and a Haemonculus enough?

Thanks for all your input btw, this has been really helpful. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 27 2015, 01:00

Grots don't fit in venoms and they take up 2 spots each..I am assuming you mwnt Raiders though as that is what I see in your list.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 27 2015, 01:15

Quote :
Doesn't it depend on the target's toughness though?

I mean, 2 CCWs need 5s to wound T4 and 6s to wound T5 bikers and such - whilst Scissorhands at least mean you only ever need 4s to wound.
I amended my post after realizing I didn't elaborate to include the sump.. since thats the only way I run a haemie nowdays I always assume its present. But ya no sump ccw's suck. With they are passable if pts are tight. That said its not going to be game breaking either way, gauntlet vs scissors that is. I just feel the impact of that possible lone 6 is better as ID vs a rend.

Quote :
That's a good point regarding overwatch - I might have just found a use for those Lhamaeans.
Exactly or even better a sslyth. I've been delving into lone fiends but have recently included a sslyth in place of one since it has 5s for stats 5+ armour and fnp. I usually don't incude single court HQs unless I need another venom unlocked or I'm skimping on archons which I rarely do. But in this case I've been developing a counter strategy to alpha strikes so one sslyth fits with that although after the first sslyth then fiends become better, at least so far. Think lictor shame only mechanized..

Quote :
Do you think it would be worth taking an extra Incubi and swapping out the Venom for a Raider? Or, is 4 and a Haemonculus enough?

Thanks for all your input btw, this has been really helpful.
I personally like raiders better for combat units due to 3 hp disi cannon and cheaper cost not to mention the option for stealth. Oh and its that little bit harder to surround and auto dead you. I think 5 is ideal for cost vs performance but since the haemie is compulsory it doesn't exactly count, so ya.. lose the venom for a raider and you have half an incubi.

And your welcome, anytime.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 27 2015, 01:35

Looks like you've got plenty of anti armour. I'd drop the troop blasters and save yourself some points to top up your 3-man grot unit?
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 27 2015, 01:36

Regarding Scissorhands vs Agonizers:
I personally like my Aberration with Scissorhands. I don't care much about 3+ or worse saves. The sheer number of wounds this unit makes is rediculous enough that a sufficient amount will go through, barring amazing luck with save dices. 2+ armour saves don't die all that much, though, so that option is nice to have, but mostly it's to have at least a little bit of threat vs walkers, especially Imperial Knights.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 27 2015, 15:13

colinsherlow wrote:
Grots don't fit in venoms and they take up 2 spots each..I am assuming you mwnt Raiders though as that is what I see in your list.

I was talking about the Incubi venom.

Brom wrote:

I amended my post after realizing I didn't elaborate to include the sump.. since thats the only way I run a haemie nowdays I always assume its present. But ya no sump ccw's suck. With they are passable if pts are tight. That said its not going to be game breaking either way, gauntlet vs scissors that is. I just feel the impact of that possible lone 6 is better as ID vs a rend.

Ah, sorry - I hadn't realised you were including poison from Sump. I'm too used to using it for Rampage.

Brom wrote:

Exactly or even better a sslyth. I've been delving into lone fiends but have recently included a sslyth in place of one since it has 5s for stats 5+ armour and fnp. I usually don't incude single court HQs unless I need another venom unlocked or I'm skimping on archons which I rarely do. But in this case I've been developing a counter strategy to alpha strikes so one sslyth fits with that although after the first sslyth then fiends become better, at least so far. Think lictor shame only mechanized..

Interesting. I find I rarely have spare FA slots for lone fiends and such. Razz

Brom wrote:

I personally like raiders better for combat units due to 3 hp disi cannon and cheaper cost not to mention the option for stealth. Oh and its that little bit harder to surround and auto dead you. I think 5 is ideal for cost vs performance but since the haemie is compulsory it doesn't exactly count, so ya.. lose the venom for a raider and you have half an incubi.

Okay, I'll add an Incubi and swap to a Raider.

nexs wrote:
Looks like you've got plenty of anti armour. I'd drop the troop blasters and save yourself some points to top up your 3-man grot unit?

The thing is, however much AT I have in my list, I still seem to struggle with armour.

Last game I had a similar amount of anti-tank, and still spent the entire game struggling to take down my opponent's defiler and 2 Maulerfiends.

It's like my anti-tank units work on the same principle as Conservation of Ninjitsu. Neutral

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjutsu
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 27 2015, 17:48

I'll add one exception I just thought of. I might consider taking scissorhand again if attaching a haemie with wwp to a large reaver unit with heal lances. In this instance I would be trying to saturate/supplement the existing rending.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 27 2015, 22:19

edited: disregard, incorrect info...
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 28 2015, 13:08

I just played a game more or less with this list.

Since it was a for-fun game, I thought I'd do something a little more interesting and took out a bit of stuff to add in some extra characters (POW! Take that, foot!). So, the final list looked like this:

Grotesquerie:
Haemonculus w/ Scissorhands, Vexator Mask, Sindriq's Sump (Warlord)
3 Grotesques
- Raider w/ Dark Lance
3 Grotesques
- Raider w/ Dark Lance

RSR Detachment:
Archon w/ Agoniser, Animus Vitae
- Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
Lhamaean
- Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
Succubus w/ Glaive, Parasite's Kiss
4 Incubi w/ Klaivex
- Raider w/ Dark Lance
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster
- Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster
- Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire Blaster
5 Scourges w/ 4x Heat Lance
3 Reavers w/ Cluster Caltrops, Heat Lance
3 Reavers w/ Cluster Caltrops, Heat Lance
3 Reavers w/ Cluster Caltrops, Heat Lance
Ravager w/ 3x Dark Lance

I was originally planning some sort of competition or army split between my ~100pt character trio, but that basically got thrown out of the window immediately. Razz

Anyway, I was playing against Orks with a Biker warboss and biker painboy in a squad of biker nobz, 3 trukks of 'ard slugga boyz, and a trukk of nobs and painboy. The sergeant Nobz all had power klaws, the warbokk had power kalw, lucky stikk and attack squig, and the bikers had a mix of stuff.

The mission was Eternal War 1. One objective went in the middle, and 4 others were placed basically in each table corner. They were largely ignored (you'll see why).

Grots got 4+ FNP from Grotesquerie, Combat drugs were +1Ld and my Warlord trait was useless (Dark Artisan – presumably his Pain Engines were sent through the wrong WWP and are still waiting at whatever passes for DE luggage collection). Haemonculus joined the Incubi, Succubus and Archon each led a Grot squad.

My opponent won the roll off and elected to deploy first. He put the bikers on the left, with two ard boyz trukks next to them. The Nob trukk went just right of centre, and the final ard boyz trukk went to the right of that.

I deployed the empty Archon venom and lhamaean venom on the far left, with one unit of Reavers in front. The Succubus/grot raider and a warrior venom went to their right. The scourges and ravager went behind some terrain in the centre, with the second unit of reavers in front of the ravager. Then, on the far right, there was the other warrior venom, archon/grot raider and haemonculi/incubi raider with the final reaver unit in front.

My plan:
1) He has very little shooting, so I won't be too aggressive with my assault units.
2) His Warboss unit is key here. My shooting is really ineffective against that many 2-wound models with 4+ saves and FNP. I'll need Grotesques and possibly Incubi to kill it. So, I'll try and whittle it with the venoms and slow it down with various units. The succubus grots will die to it, but with Rampage I'm hoping they'll do some decent damage in return (the succubus might even be able to get a wound on the warboss).
3) My other grots and incubi will focus on the nobz – hence their transport needs to die first. Once those are dead, I'll hopefully have enough PfP bonuses to be able to take on the Warboss and his squad. If I can charge it with both the archon grots and the haemonculus' incubi, that should be it.
4) The ard boys are less of a concern. I'll probably just end up going after them with whatever's convenient at the time.

I failed to seize the initiative.

His first turn was very short – his entire army just move forward and then went flat-out for extra distance. The nobz ended up a bit more central, the right most ard boyz went to the far right, alongside some ruins. The other units didn't move much laterally.
I moved the empty venom to the left, the lahmaean venom dumped her near the objective (a vain attempt to hinder their movement) and retreated a bit. The reavers in front moved forward to get close to the left most ard boyz trukk. The succubus raider shifted a bit. The left warrior venom disembarked its cargo into blaster range of one of the ard boyz trukks, and then retreated. The scourges jumped to shoot the Nob trukk, whilst the ravager angled to shoot the right ard boyz trukk. The centre reavers moved to shoot the side of the nob trukk, and the archon and haemonculi raiders positioned themselves to fire dark lances at it. Finally the right-hand reavers moved up to the nobz on the right.

So, a lot of AV10 open-topped trukks and not much cover, vs. 6 dark lances, 3 Heat Lances in melta range, 4 haywire blasters and a couple of blasters. Guess how many I got? 1... That's right, one trukk went down (the nob one – they disembarked at the back). . I got a couple of the Warboss' squad with Venoms though (very poor saves on his part), but that was it for shooting. The reavers near the nob trukk retreated a bit, whilst the other two reavers charged their trukks. The right-hand reaver squad brought that trukk down, but the other one failed miserably.
In his turn, the biker squad multi-charged a venom, the succubus' raider and a disembarked warrior squad. The left boy squad charged the Lhamaean and the failure-reavers. The middle one charged the scourges. The final one charged the successful Reavers. The Nobz charged the last reaver squad, but rolled poorly and failed the charge. All other charge targets were annihilated. The right-hand boy squad consolidated into the ruins.

In my turn, the Scourges arrived and I placed them about 15" away from the Nobz. I elected not to charge the right-hand ard boyz with incubi (in cover, sigh). Instead, I put that raider near them – hoping to draw them out, and aimed the righthand venom at them. The archon raider and ravager moved alongside the raider to draw beads on the nobz. So, I aimed 5 Dark Lances and 5 Heat Lances (4 from the newly-arrived scourges, a 5th from the last Reaver squad) at the Nobz... and promptly missed with 4 of the dark lances. The Heat Lances got a single nob. The archon venom got two more of the biker nobz (both had been previously wounded - IIRC as a result of the raider and venom they charged both exploding). The final reavers then retreated back from the nobz.

The forcibly-disembarked Succubus' grot unit was surrounded by bikers and an ard boyz squad (the one that killed the scourges). I decided to go after the boyz - since they'd need 6s to wound the Grots, and I could hopefully route them. Well, the succubus challenged and immediately rolled 3 3s to wound, leaving the nob alive – who then proceeded to pulp her with his klaw. Sigh. The grots also failed to do more than a few wounds - leaving most of the boyz alive. They stayed in combat.

In his turn, the left ard boyz went after the scourges, the right-hand ard boyz went after the reavers, the nobz went after my raiders and ravager (I'd put them close together to deny him cover), and the bikers went after my left grots. He called a Waaagh to get the first 3 into combat. The Grots attacked the bikes (I think they might have got 1), and then died to the warboss. The Nobz got all 3 vehicles, the reavers died and the scourges (surprisingly) only lost 2 and stayed in combat.

The Archon threw his Animus Vitae at the Nobz, but it must have been a dud as it rolled a 1 to. The left empty venom picked off another Nob from the Warboss' squad, leaving just the Warboss, Painboy and 2 nobz alive. The other two venoms fired at the middle ard boyz squad, inflicting a few casualties.

The Archon squad and Haemonculus' squad both charged the nobz. The Archon challenged and made up for the Succubus' earlier incompetence by dicing the Nob leader so enthusiastically that a nearby nob was also wounded! The Incubi, buffed by the Haemonculus, cut through most of the others, and the Grots and Haemonculus mopped up. When the dust cleared, there were just 2 left who failed to scratch the Incubi armour. Unsurprisingly, they elected to flee and were cut down for their troubles.

In his turn, the right-hand boyz shot up 2 of the Incubi, and the Warboss squad moved near to the Archon's squad. The middle boyz charged my middle venom and destroyed it. The Archon was in range of the bikers, so I sent him after them, and the Haemonculus with his 2 remaining Incubi went after the left boy squad. The right-hand venom disembarked its warriors and prepared to open fire on the right-hand boy squad. The venom and warriors killed about half of the boy squad.
Overwatch saw the Haemonculi's last Incubi die – leaving only him and the Klaivex alive. It was enough though – buffed by the Haemonculus and rampage, the Klaivex proceeded to cut down the Nob and all but one of the boys. The last boy ran and, surprisingly, escaped. The Archon's squad did less well. He challenged but both the warboss and painboy decided they had other things to do and let a nob sergeant accept. He was brutalised by an agoniser, and the last Nob was killed by the Grots. Sadly though, they didn't get to enjoy their victory for long as the warboss mashed the entire squad.

In his turn, the warboss and painboy charged the Hamonculus and Kliavex. The Klaivex cut down the painboy, but the haemonculus did nothing and both were turned to paste. I called the game there.

Whilst it didn't go well for me, this game was a hell of a lot of fun. In many ways, it actually got more fun when my left flank completely collapsed and it turned from a raid into a last stand for the guys on the right – as the orks encircled them. The Haemonculus-Klaivex tag-team also amused me no end, and I think I'll award the Klaivex man of the match.

By the way, Brom, I'm willing to concede entirely that 2 CCWs are better on a Haemonculus than Scissorhands. In 2 rounds of combat (about 6 hits) my Haemonculus rolled a single 4 – everything else was just 1s and 2s. I think I might just start using him as a bullet-sponge and let his squad do all the work. In contrast, my Archon's performance makes me feel really bad about not buying him a proper save.
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iknowinewb
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iknowinewb


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Join date : 2015-06-18

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 28 2015, 15:21

I am sorta curious how are your moving in to drop off men then move back off.
As for archons, always bring the 2++ if you are taking him in as a close combat monster, either go big or go for a blaster + wwp. The time where your archon takes 40+ shots to the face and lives is worth 40 pts.
if you are irked by the haemonoculus's seemingly incompetent melee, I recommend swapping out one of his ccw for the master crafted relic pistol (2+ to wound and 2+ to hit and reroll 1 to hits for 5pts? ynot), his sole splinter pistol for another 2+ to wound pistol (i think its called a stinger pistol). Even with just ap 5 for both its just 10pts spent so not much fuss and you can fire both at the same turn, yet get +1 to attack due to having 1 ccw + pistol.
You pretty much fell into the same mistake when fighting orks for the first time like me. Getting too close to pull off more effective shooting and getting wagh'ed for your troubles.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on this list?   Thoughts on this list? I_icon_minitime

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