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chickendinner
Hellion
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PostSubject: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 18 2015, 19:57

I will be facing a Khorne army for the first time tomorrow. What are some dos and donts when facing this army?

It's a friendly game and I will bring a casual list, but looking at what they have to offer I think I will try to keep it light on close combat units. Also demons are fearless, so freakshow is out of the question.

My main concern is, how manoeuvrable are they? My whole army is either embarked on skimmers or a reaver jetbike; is simply staying out of charge range a viable strategy against them or will there be a danger that they will somehow jump me?
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 18 2015, 20:24

You have to fear the hounds. They are huge, hard hitting and fast. Put enough Splinter weapons should do the trick. Gun boats are far too short ranged. So I'd suggest Venom squads.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 18 2015, 20:27

I've beaten Khorne Daemonkin with the Freakshow.  (Just sayin' Wink ) But I definitely get where you're coming from.  

Despite their speed, you're faster.  The really short version is: keep out of melee as long as possible and wear him down from range.  If you bring melee units, have them pile on already wounded units for the sure kill.
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chickendinner
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 18 2015, 20:49

@Jimsolo wrote:
I've beaten Khorne Daemonkin with the Freakshow.  (Just sayin' Wink )

How? Just using the psychic shriek?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 19 2015, 05:53

Freakshow lists have more than JUST the Freakshow stuff. (That's what makes them so great.)

Actually, Psychic Shriek did okay that game, but the big winner was Mirror of Minds. Aced a Bloodthirster from full hit points to dead with no chance of survival.
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Creeping Darkness
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Creeping Darkness

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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 19 2015, 07:44

@Jimsolo wrote:
Actually, Psychic Shriek did okay that game, but the big winner was Mirror of Minds.  Aced a Bloodthirster from full hit points to dead with no chance of survival.

Inflict arbitrary damage for the win!

Pity it has to roll to hit, or it would be a great answer to FMC spam. Then again, if you can find a skyfire nexus for your shadowseer... Twisted Evil

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chickendinner
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 19 2015, 08:59

Rolling for that one power requires some luck, though. Either way I will leave out the freakshow for this game, partly because I want it to be my secret weapon for special games, partly because last time I played it my opponent accidentally bagged my death jester and has yet to give him back.

I will simply run warriors in venoms, blasterborn in venom, possibly a razorwing, and jetbikes. I'll throw in an archon with incubi if the points allow it. Some mandrakes can't hurt either.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 19 2015, 09:04

@chickendinner wrote:
Rolling for that one power requires some luck, though. Either way I will leave out the freakshow for this game, partly because I want it to be my secret weapon for special games, partly because last time I played it my opponent accidentally bagged my death jester and has yet to give him back.

That's one way to play the denial game cheers

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chickendinner
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 19 2015, 09:35

Sad
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 19 2015, 13:31

@chickendinner wrote:
Rolling for that one power requires some luck, though. Either way I will leave out the freakshow for this game, partly because I want it to be my secret weapon for special games, partly because last time I played it my opponent accidentally bagged my death jester and has yet to give him back.

I will simply run warriors in venoms, blasterborn in venom, possibly a razorwing, and jetbikes. I'll throw in an archon with incubi if the points allow it. Some mandrakes can't hurt either.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

My recommendation for Freakshows is for Shadowseers to take one roll on Phantasmancy to fish for the two Ld powers, and then one on Telepathy, and sacrifice it for Psychic Shriek if necessary.
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chickendinner
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 19 2015, 23:52

A game and some (read many) beers later, I feel like I have enough research material to formally bring this thread to a close.

I believe in a discussion its always important to set a tone, so that everyone understands what the mood is. Here's me setting the tone: he (post-necron Khorne Demonkin Codex) did not kill a single unit (pre-necron Glorious True Eldar Codex). Just two bikes. Period.

Reason for tone: At the end of turn 3 he had: Soulgrinder, one deepstriking unit of raptors, and chaos sorcerer warlord. 1500pt game btw. We decided to call it, and let him summon a demon prince for crap and giggles, which instantly died to venom fire. Only two venoms, because like I mentioned above I felt like bringing a fun casual list.

Reason for humiliation and fresh ebay listed demons: Maneuverability (or lack thereof, depend on which POV you pick). Every turn I picked what I wanted to kill, moved my stuff out of range of the stuff I was ignoring and into range of unlucky stuff, and sure enough, killed stuff I meant to kill. Rinse and repeat.

Reason for beer: I believe that if you beat down on someone that much, buying him a beer is not ideal; use the money to buy yourself three instead, so that "accidental mess-ups" are blamed on the alcohol and not your soft, marshmallowy heart. That's Dark Eldar thinking for you.

Concluding note: if you look to other threads you might notice people bitching and moaning about our supposedly subpar codex. These people keep looking above us (Space Marine, Necron, Untrue Eldar), but seem to systematically ignore everything below us.
That's like trying to re-roll your run distance with fleet when you just rolled a four.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 00:33

I kind of think you hot the nail on the head with complaining, if you want to use Run rolls as an analogy. We might have a leg up on Daemons because we have Fleet, but the Eldar can still guarantee a Run distance of 6"+ without ever having to roll a die.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 07:15

Quote :
I believe in a discussion its always important to set a tone, so that everyone understands what the mood is. Here's me setting the tone: he (post-necron Khorne Demonkin Codex) did not kill a single unit (pre-necron Glorious True Eldar Codex). Just two bikes. Period.

Reason for tone: At the end of turn 3 he had: Soulgrinder, one deepstriking unit of raptors, and chaos sorcerer warlord. 1500pt game btw. We decided to call it, and let him summon a demon prince for crap and giggles, which instantly died to venom fire. Only two venoms, because like I mentioned above I felt like bringing a fun casual list.

Reason for humiliation and fresh ebay listed demons: Maneuverability (or lack thereof, depend on which POV you pick). Every turn I picked what I wanted to kill, moved my stuff out of range of the stuff I was ignoring and into range of unlucky stuff, and sure enough, killed stuff I meant to kill. Rinse and repeat.

Ok let us see what the tone really was.
From the 3 units he had left at the end of the game I can see he had a crap unit (raptors) and a unit that does not even exist in Khorne Daemonkin (Sorcerer Warlord)
That means in 1500 points his main detachment was CAD and picked from one of the first codex released: Chaos Space Marines (not khorne Daemonkin)

Conclusion: He played a crap codex (CSM is even worse than ours) and picked crappy units from the crap codex. You played against a CSM list and claimed that it was Khorne Daemonkin.
You conclude that you easily beat a post necron codex when you, in fact, beat a codex that was released together with 6th edition.
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chickendinner
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 08:00

Sorry, it was a chaos Lord. And no it wasn't the sixth edition codex; he used the new codex, which I had a nice long look of to confirm it was indeed the new one. Sixth ed codex did not have the blood tithe rule to summon demon princes with either.

And from the conclusion you're jumping to I just have to ask; are you really that desperate to prove our codex is bad?
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 08:07

With the info you provided:

chaos sorcerer warlord (I dont see how this can be mixed up with a khorne Lord)

My point still stands. I would love to see his list but I bet he didn't pick any unit that makes that codex strong (in fact he did pick raptors for whatever reason).
Also the story that 2 venoms obliterate a flying daemonprince (they do cause 0,6666 wounds on average) seems a bit far fetched.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 08:30

I'd be interested to see the list that he used.

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chickendinner
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 08:35

I apologise for my mistake, it was late when I wrote this.
He brought two soul grinders, which, according to him, are one of the best units in the codex. He might not have been bringing some uber competitive cheesy list, but he was not wasting points. If anything, the raptors where the only things besides the souls grinders that actually attempted to do something, since the deep struck and had some shots at my vehicles. Here's how I remember his list:

Slaughtercult formation
-1x chaos lord
-2x chaos space marine squads in rhinos
-1x possessed marines

Khorne Bloodstorm(?)
-2 or 3x raptors
-1x the guys with the power claws

And then two soulgrinders

The demon prince did not have wings, it was not flying, it was on the ground. He was not supposed to be able to summon it at all, but we agreed the game was over anyways.
And last, but not least, what is your point? That Khorne demonkin are worse than us? Because that was my point too. So I'm not even sure what we are arguing about here.
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chickendinner
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 08:37

Also, do the points add up?
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 08:38

Wow... that list is terrible.
That list is basically the eqivalent to you picking 2x10 wyches in raiders and fill the rest up with Hellions and Mandrakes.
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chickendinner
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 08:46

Sure it is; but he was not going to get anything useful out of the slaughtercult anyways, with the marines and the possessed being cumpolsory. I agree though, I was expected more demon forge stuff than just the soul grinders.

I even asked him why he didn't bring any blood hounds, since, as CptMetal mentioned, they are good against us. He replied he only had four models of them.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 08:52

Did that guy have a bet on who could make the worst list or something? It's awful! Khorne Daemonkin lists are capable of being really dangerous. That list is barely capable of making it onto the table without the opponent laughing himself to death.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Khorne demonkin    Khorne demonkin  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 20 2015, 08:56

So you won against a terrible list (he doesnt have to use the slaughtercult, especially in 1500 points this is taking up too much space) against an opponent with a very limited miniature count.
And this proves that daemonkin is wors or on the same level as DE?
Go and look for an opponent that can actually write a proper list and has enough miniatures to play.

That is like saying "Eldar are the weakest codex. I tabled my frinds eldar army consisting of 6 blobs of 20 guardians and 2 Wraithlords led by Asurmen" "He never got close enough to shoot me, so either our codex is way more OP than peple think or I'm a tactical genious can play better than the rest of you"
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