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 DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list

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SCP Yeeman
Laughingcarp
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 22 2015, 16:32

After 5 practice games for my first local ITC 1850 tournament I've gotten my Null Deployment list to a point I'm mostly happy with.
4 wins (Skitarii/Admech/Knight, Nurgle CSM/Daemons, Eldar Wraith Host [tabled!], SM/GK Nemesis/2 Knights) and 1 loss (Ultramarines Drop Pod & Skyhammer Annihilation).

Last thing I'm trying to figure out is what to do with my recently freed up 85pts. Right now I'm looking at
1- 2nd unit of Windriders (as listed below), turning what was an Allied Detachment into a CAD.
2- Shadowfield & Agoniser on the Archon, Laser Lance and Banshee Mask on the Autarch.

With more jetbikes I can now use the Autarch as Warlord, making Slay the Warlord less easy since it won't be the Deep Striking Archon.
With Shadowfield/nice stabby toys, I can stop losing combat. 3/4 games my Archon and Autarch have been sucked into combat, either by the opponent forcing me to clear an objective or him charging me.
Decisions, decisions...


Dark Eldar CAD
HQ - Archon, WWP, Blaster

TROOP - 5 Kabalites, Blaster, Venom w/Cannon
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Venom w/Cannon
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Venom w/Cannon
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Venom w/Cannon

FAST - Raider, Nightshield (Archon & Fire Dragons)
5 Scourges, 4 Haywire Blasters
5 Scourges, 4 Haywire Blasters

HEAVY - Ravager, 3 Lances
Ravager, 3 Lances
Ravager, Dissies

Scalpel Squadron Formation
5 Wracks, Venom w/Cannon
5 Wracks, Venom w/Cannon

Eldar CAD
HQ - Autarch, Skyrunner, Scorpion Chainsword

TROOPS - 3 Windriders, 3 Scatter Laser
3 Windriders, 3 Shuriken Cannon

ELITE - 5 Fire Dragons

1850/1850

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I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 22 2015, 16:54

Do you miss having any CC ability at all? I would think a small squad of Grotesques would go a long way and give your opponent something tough to try and kill.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 22 2015, 18:41

I like the list in general, actually wanted to try something similar with scalpel squadron but haven't yet. Opposing alpha strike lists seem like they could result in some auto losses if they go second though. I'm assuming thats what happened vs ultras?

Something durable in cover could mitigate this to an extent, like the above mentioned grots. In the current ITC environment I would probably lean more towards reavers though. Reason is I feel they counter and survive well against the majority of popular null deploying alpha strategies out there while having good synergy with your list/ICs.  

Speaking of which what do you think about trimming back on a ravager to find room for at least a 6 man unit to escort your baron, er I mean autarch? Much scarier to things like skyhammer/WS biker grav spam and have functional overlap with the lance ravager they would replace. In general just a great utility unit with the addition of the autarch.

Either way I wanna suggest something I just recently adapted. Go Iyanden CAD and give the baron a banshee mask, scs, and soulshrive. This thing is nuts if you get to connect decently and early (like any unit t4 or worse no invulns/fnp/RP). From there it gets waaay out of hand inside a hit and run platform to rinse repeat. S3 -> S4-6 -> voltron. Its like a pseudo soul-trap + huskblade. On crack. A little chancy but when it goes off it really gets stupid snowballing into ID range pretty fast.  

Also why the fire dragons over scytheguard? I realize the dragons are cheaper but even with the ITC nerfs scytheguard are better and worth the extra C note. Plus that would solve your problem of getting the archon assaulted.

Edit- oh and any reason for the shuris on those bikes I'm missing?
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 22 2015, 20:40

I kinda miss having CC stuff, but don't wanna shave too much out of the list.

In the 5 games I've played I've been using a Vengeance Weapon Battery fortification (Av 14/14/14, bs2 battle cannon) for those 85points I'm messing around with, to anchor my line, keep me from getting tabled, and hold an objective. I've just found that it doesn't do enough to count for anything so I'm dumping it.
Vs Ultras he forced me to go first. He just kept responding to my deep strike with his own pods, preventing me from scoring or having survivors lol. I conceded on 5.

I could definitely dump a Ravager, but which? Dark Lances haven't been good for much, and that Dissie Ravager has been MVP a couple games, but don't wanna lose out on too much Anti-Tank because Knights.
And you are recommending 6 RJBs, yes? With caltrops that's 126pts, so a Lance Ravager+. Then I'd have to find points for Banshee Mask and probably Laser Lance. Now where the hell do I get those 16pts???
Since I'd have to go RSR Detachment for this anyway, could dump the last Lance Ravager for another 4 Scourges. That's 5pts free'd up.


Soulshrive looks hilarious, but I'll stick to what I (barely) know for now.
Will definitely test it out asap though!

Fire Dragons > Scytheguard because points, because $, and because I like my friends. Lol no competitive reason.

Shuriken Cannons on half the bikes because I don't know better. Are Scatter Lasers really just more win?

Thanks for the in-depth replies!

New style is something like this;
RSR Detachment
-Archon, WWP, Blaster
-4x 5 Kabbies, Venom, Blaster
-Raider, Shields
-3x 5 Scourges, 4 Haywire
-6 Reavers, 2 Caltrops
-Dissie Ravager
Scalpel Squadron
-2x 5 Wracks, Venoms
Eldar CAD
-Autarch, Banshee, Skyrunner, Laser Lance
-2x3 Windriders, 3 Scatter
-5 Fire Dragons

1858/1850. NEED TO TRIM 8PTS!

_________________
I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons


Last edited by Laughingcarp on Thu Jul 23 2015, 05:33; edited 1 time in total
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ravengoescaw
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 22 2015, 22:06

You can drop the shield off of you raider, I always found nightshield to be meh at best

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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 22 2015, 22:18

I am guessing you forgot the Fire Dragons in the above revised list?

To be honest I would mix up the Scourge and put at least 1 squad with 4 Heat Lances. Haywire Blasters are cool, but neigh useless against non-mech armies. Or drop an entire squad all together and use those points elsewhere, like some Swooping Hawks or small squad of Warp Spiders.

I would also vouch for two 5 man squads of Mandrakes. They kill Scouting armies and give you that resilient unit that you can shove in cover to survive while your army comes in Turn 2 if need be. They give Deployment options, resiliency, and some AP 4 shots for Necron/Scout killing goodness. And no, I am not crazy for this suggestion as Mandrakes have been a mainstay now in my army for a couple months and I can always justify their 60pts.

Have you found the WWP necessary for the Dragons? I am yet to have my squad die while DSing and if they scatter more than 6'' away you can always get out and/or Battle Focus to the target. I used to have a WWP in my list for the same reason, but trimmed those points as they scatter rarely far enough away to become useless. And they would still only die on a 1 when DS misshaping.
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 22 2015, 23:51

Quote :
I would also vouch for two 5 man squads of Mandrakes.
Good call! I meant to suggest them or rangers. WWP is essential here btw because the pinpoint DS allows the raider to position around a knights ion shield. Dirty but legal.

Laughingcarp- I got a better idea where your coming from now. No biggy on the scytheguard I don't break em out either unless its really salty territory agreed to before hand. Dragons are great too for all the reasons you mentioned.

I used to use VWBs before skyfire screwed my scratch built one. The other idea along the same line is a bastion with escape hatch, although against the lists you really need its durability for it would get ghosted quick anyway.

Quote :
I could definitely dump a Ravager, but which? Dark Lances haven't been good for much, and that Dissie Ravager has been MVP a couple games, but don't wanna lose out on too much Anti-Tank because Knights.
I would lose one lance ravager. The disi's are much better currently anyway. In fact I moved away from DL ravagers quite awhile back. Not focused enough for my tastes. I'd also say raiders have surpassed venoms for multiple reasons although a mix is still best.
Anyway I feel your list has the tools to deal with IKs. Now Gladius idk but you'd really have to alter your list to bag that match. Not worth it considering the other real menace is bike armies of various flavors against which you really want to force jink and/or high RoF. Or Reavers which cover both bases.

Quote :
And you are recommending 6 RJBs, yes? With caltrops that's 126pts, so a Lance Ravager+. Then I'd have to find points for Banshee Mask and probably Laser Lance. Now where the hell do I get those 16pts???
Yup although more is better but 6 min and I'd suggest a champ. Trust me a large fully tooled unit sh*ts all over skyhammer. If they are assault heavy you do want to bubble wrap with something trashy.. like warriors lol. I would suggest losing a DL ravager and all the blasters although I know some archons love their blaster warriors.. I prefer mine bare and you do have three scourges!! I agree with SCP Yeeman though one needs to be melta. Its better vs non mech and has the "one shot" potential that haywire completely lacks.

Don't drop the night shields btw I'm a huge fan of those with shooty contents.

Edit- I see you dropped both DL ravagers that works. Also yeah 3 scatter lasers are 12 x s6 shots vs 9 x s6 ghetto rends. Much better. In small doses like you have (thats all I use too ) they are extremely good. 30+ is just stupid effective.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 23 2015, 06:23

@ravengoescaw; Yep, Nightshields are mostly meh. But I want it on this boat specifically because it's such a high threat, every extra gun I force the opponent to take to end it is something that isn't shooting more important things.

@SCPYeeman; lol thank you, fixed! Fire Dragons are back in.
I'm absolutely willing to swap out a unit of Hay-Scourge to Heat Lance. It's something I've been wanting to try anyway.
I'm totally with you in the Mandrake love, but I sold mine right before our new 'dex came out :'(
As for WWP, what Brom said. For TKing Knights it's totally necessary.

@Brom; Yeah man, scytheguard are good no argument, but not my style.
Truth about the VWBs/Bastions. In all of my games bar one they've been put down in turn 1 or 2 anyway, a Bastion would die exactly as quick.
Agreed on that Lance Ravager and his friend. They never perform. Yesterday I got excited when one put two glances on a Drop Pod... and that's when I knew it was time to hand their pilots to the Haemonculi. So as mentioned above Heat Lance Scourge will be a thing.
IKs are more what I'm worried about. There is 1 Gladius Pod heavy player in this area, maybe two, whereas the other guys are rocking their Razorbacks. My meta is becoming infantry/elite and Knight heavy, and not much else for vehicles bar the occasional flyer or dread.
Scatter Lasers it is.
As for the blasters on warriors, I wants them. It makes Crisis drops and the like cry, helps clear out DS SM HQs/special weapons, and really just ups the damage potential (not to mention versatility) of Warriors.

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Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 23 2015, 17:45

I am going to try to comment on here after work. One thing I will say quickly is that I think 3 units of scourge is unnecessary. They only really have AT as a solid target. If there is not a lot a AT then they are mostly useless except for maybe cock blocking a little or getting some maelstrom. I think 1-2 units is more than enough. I have been using swooping hawks with Exarch and they have been amazing. I would definitely consider them.

Will edit and post more later.

MSU reserve armies are my favourite :-)

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 24 2015, 07:50

Yeah that makes sense, and I'd have to finish converting my 3rd unit of scourges anyway which is a problem 'cause I'm lazy.
That gives me my 8pts I needed, then what to do with the 112?
More Reavers/Champ?
Kit for Scalpel Squadron?

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Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
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ravengoescaw
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 24 2015, 09:30

More reavers...... but I am slightly biased

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Woozl
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 24 2015, 19:22

Kit for scalpel squadron is pretty simple I think. Ossefactor is mandatory in my book. It pares well with the venom shooting.

My experience with haywire scourges has been lackluster, but in an MSU list like yours, more bodies never hurts.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 26 2015, 19:23

More reavers could be a good idea. I'd also suggest a few more fire dragons.

I used to think 5 was good enough, but soon realised that a few more is always a really good idea. I think 7 with an Exarch is the sweet spot. Having a few more dragons helps out a lot for when your dice go sour. And also make it much easier to kill vehicle squadrons, super heavies etc.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 28 2015, 03:27

Hmm I could maybe fit a 6th in there, interesting idea. They did only exactly kill the last Knight they were pointed at.

Woozi, yeah Haywire has been great for me.

raven, am considering more reavers for sure!



Though I've mostly decided on 5 Scourge, 3 Heat Lances

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Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
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PostSubject: Re: DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list   DE MSU/Autarch NULL deploy 1850 ITC list I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 28 2015, 13:53

If you can squeeze 3 bike with a caltrop and add a fire dragon Exarch that would be good. I'd say add 2 dragons with one being an Exarch if possible.

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