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 Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur

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Squidmaster
CurstAlchemist
iknowinewb
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iknowinewb
Hellion
iknowinewb

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Join date : 2015-06-18

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PostSubject: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 15 2015, 17:15

Title says most of what I want to say.
As a start, imagine the following scenario.
2 Dark Eldar armies (Army A and Army B) face off, it is turn 2, both armies have fnp 6+ due to PfP
Archon B shoots his Animus Vitae at Archon A's unit. It wounds and kills a model. PfP gives fnp 5+
Archon B and his unit then charges Archon A's unit, Archon A overwatches with his own Animus Vitae, it kills a trueborn.

Q: Does the Agonizing rule from Animus Vitae stack? If it does, does Archon B get to proc furious charge?

Torment Grenade Launchers
Soulfright states that any unit that has suffered one or more hits from a weapon with this (Soulfright) special rule must make a leadership test and take a wound for each point the test is fail by......(you know the rest). However, the unit MUST take a test right?
If that is so there any effects that come to mind that can take advantage of this forced check?

Armour of Misery
Does the aura of the AoM affect anything if the bearer is within a vehicle?

Assume we take desperate allies, they are considered allies and not enemies, right?
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CurstAlchemist
Wych
CurstAlchemist

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PostSubject: Re: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 15 2015, 17:45

On the Animus Vitae I would like to say yes, both activations stack; however, in my rulebook it clearly states what it stacks with: "This benefit applies for the remainder of the battle and is cumulative with the Architect of Agony and/or Master of Pain special rules. It does not state that it is cumulative with another Animus Vitae and thus I would say no they don't.
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Squidmaster
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 15 2015, 19:15

Animus Vitae: YES, it clearly says it applies to ALL Dark Eldar, so that includes your opponent's Dark Eldar too.

Torment Grenade Launcher: There are plenty of thuings such as the Armour of Misery or the Mask of Secrets which can reduce their Leadership to make this test harder and therefore kill more, but remember this is completely useless against all Space Marines.

Armour of Misery: This is a tad unclear.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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Klaivex Charondyr

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PostSubject: Re: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 15 2015, 19:22

Quote :
Assume we take desperate allies, they are considered allies and not enemies, right?

No, they are considered enemies which you cannot target on purpose.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 15 2015, 22:58

Yes, the armor affects things if you're in a vehicle. You measure 6" from the hull.
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iknowinewb
Hellion
iknowinewb

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PostSubject: Re: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 16 2015, 03:30

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Quote :
Assume we take desperate allies, they are considered allies and not enemies, right?

No, they are considered enemies which you cannot target on purpose.

If that is so... now read the wording on dark eldar's tactical objectives.... REALIZE SOMETHING? NOTE THE AMOUNT OF "ENEMIES" IN THE WORDING.

@Jimsolo wrote:
Yes, the armor affects things if you're in a vehicle.  You measure 6" from the hull.

Lets say my opponent argues that the model is not on the board, that the rules states the armor effects models within 6" of the bearer, how would I reply?

@Squidmaster wrote:


Torment Grenade Launcher: There are plenty of thuings such as the Armour of Misery or the Mask of Secrets which can reduce their Leadership to make this test harder and therefore kill more, but remember this is completely useless against all Space Marines.


By benefit I was referring to rules,abilities or objectives that may be used together with the forced leadership check, for example, will mob rule trigger if a fearless unit of orks fail the leadership check.
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Massaen
Klaivex
Massaen

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PostSubject: Re: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 16 2015, 04:53

There is a section in the transport rules that clarifies when you need to measure to an embarked model - you measure to the hull

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iknowinewb
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PostSubject: Re: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2015, 17:18

more stuff to ask
If a wych squad were to be exactly 12" from urien rakarth and then charged out from his FoP bubble, would they still get the +1 str from furious charge?

If 2 models were to be in a challenge, the other members of their squad still must pile in to the opposing challenger if he is the closest model and are still able to attack if in base contact with him even with no other alternative model for attack, as long as wounds are not allocated to a challenger before said challenger's squad is dead, right?

Venoms can take their 5++ vs an attack from Death or Glory right? This would make tankshocking them very fun to do.

Recently there was also an argument in my FLGS about whether a unsavable wound is counted as a unsaved wound (reminds me of our shadowfield) due to someone claiming the eldar player wont be able to negate a PoTW wound via the farseer's ability to discard a warp charge.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2015, 18:59

@iknowinewb wrote:
more stuff to ask
If a wych squad were to be exactly 12" from urien rakarth and then charged out from his FoP bubble, would they still get the +1 str from furious charge?
This answer is predicated on the idea that they have Furious Charge from the PfP effect and are losing it outside his bubble.

No - per the wording of Furious charge you cannot receive the benefit until you have charged into combat, which means, functionally, that the check would come at the end of the charge sub-phase, and by your wording it appears they would be outside the bubble at this point.

Conversely, you could charge into the bubble and gain the effects.

@iknowinewb wrote:
If 2 models were to be in a challenge, the other members of their squad still must pile in to the opposing challenger if he is the closest model and are still able to attack if in base contact with him even with no other alternative model for attack, as long as wounds are not allocated to a challenger before said challenger's squad is dead, right?
Absolutely. Challenged models are still part of their unit and still part of the given combat and also cannot have wounds allocated to them from outside of the combat until all enemy models outside the combat are removed.

@iknowinewb wrote:
Venoms can take their 5++ vs an attack from Death or Glory right? This would make tankshocking them very fun to do.
As an invulnerable save is not a cover save (which cannot be taken against Death or Glory attacks) you would be allowed your 5++ unless the enemy attack negated invulnerable saves.

@iknowinewb wrote:
Recently there was also an argument in my FLGS about whether a unsavable wound is counted as a unsaved wound (reminds me of our shadowfield) due to someone claiming the eldar player wont be able to negate a PoTW wound via the farseer's ability to discard a warp charge.
I fail to follow this question - the Ghosthelm *specifically* states it can be used to stop PotW wounds. That's literally what that piece of wargear does - so, yes, it can do it.

If I'm misunderstanding the question could you re-phrase it?

Also, it sounds like if the debate is about something else that can remove wounds. The question isn't whether the wound is unsavable, the question is if the wound removal tool is a save. If it is - you can't do it. If it isn't, then you can. Make sense?

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PostSubject: Re: Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur   Rule debate dump for all the possible but improbable situations that might occur I_icon_minitime

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