THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Dark Eldar Beginnings

Go down 
+3
Trystis
CptMetal
Fatespinner
7 posters
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Fatespinner
Slave
Fatespinner

Posts : 15
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : Troy, NY

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 17 2015, 22:09

Hey everyone!  I'm a new Dark Eldar player looking for some advice/guidance on where to begin regarding army building.  I have a pretty expansive Chaos Marines/Daemons army already and am fairly familiar with the rules of 40K as a whole but I'm looking towards using Dark Eldar both as a standalone army and as potential allies to shore up some of the weaknesses in my Chaos codexes.

So, to get started, I'd ideally like to get myself about 1250 pts worth to really explore the capabilities of the army and to that end I'm considering the list below:

Dark Eldar Combined Arms Detatchment
HQ: Archon (Huskblade, Haywire Grenades, Shadow Field)
-Court of the Archon: 2x Sslyth, 1x Medusae, 1x Lhamean, Venom (2x Splinter Cannons)

Troops:
10x Kabalite Warriors (9x Splinter Rifle, 1x Blaster)
-Raider (Aethersails, Nightshield, Splinter Racks, Shock Prow)

9x Wyches
1x Hekatrix (Power Sword, Haywire Grenades)
-Raider (Dark Lance, Aethersails, Nightshield, Shock Prow)

Fast Attack:
6x Reaver Jetbikes (2x heat lance, 4x default loadout)

Heavy Support:
1x Chronos (Spirit Probe)
1x Talos (TL Liquifier Gun)
1x Voidraven Bomber (Nightshield, no missiles)


I welcome any critique or advice on improving this list since, at this point, I haven't actually bought any models yet.  I'm looking for a list to serve as my first purchase and to give me a good grounding in what the Dark Eldar do best.  My local meta, if it helps, is rather vehicle-heavy (hence all the haywire grenades and lances) but there's also quite a few Marines to deal with (power swords, liquifier, Medusae, Huskblade).  Thanks in advance!
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Dracon
CptMetal

Posts : 3020
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 05:52

I actually prefer the Razorwing above the void raven because of the missiles.

And why the shock prow? Chains are effective in my opinion, but that's in the end your decision.

I would get rid of the witches and try to fit in two Venom Warrior squads.
Back to top Go down
Fatespinner
Slave
Fatespinner

Posts : 15
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : Troy, NY

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 06:07

My reason for the Shock Prows was that, because of how fast the vehicles are, they would be able to use those (effectively AV 14) rams against a lot of the armor I encounter before dumping out their troops to mangle the vehicle in close combat.

I suppose the Shock Prow on the Warrior Raider might be wasted, but since Wyches are close combat units I thought their Raider would be much more likely to get up in the enemy's face where it might be able to effectively ram.

So Wyches aren't particularly good, then?  Smaller units of Warriors tend to be more effective?  Since most of the infantry I fight has 3+ armor saves and T4, I was thinking perhaps the Wyches with their I6 and 4++ (and FnP in later rounds) in close combat might do a decent amount of damage to smaller Marine squads without really worrying too much about retaliation.

Also:  What's the best way to keep your transports from just getting completely exploded on turn 1?  I fight a lot of Imp Guard, and they can use Orders to give their heavy weapon teams (w/lascannons) Ignore Cover for a turn.  I'm assuming the best strategy is to just race up and get those units in close combat ASAP before they blow everything up?
Back to top Go down
Trystis
Kabalite Warrior
Trystis

Posts : 220
Join date : 2012-12-01

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 11:13

Ramming is rarely if ever effective nowadays. Its better to use an empty raider to shoot, provide cover, prevent charges, or generally just parking it someplace annoying for you opponent than to try and ram. They also die so easy investing extra points in them is always a gamble.

If you are facing ignore cover weapons then your options for raiders are limited, you can try racing them up. In any case its really import to use any LoS blocking terrain if possible.

Wyches can tarpit ok, but getting them into combat can be a challenge. Overwatch can be particularly frustrating. Once they are in combat they bounce off MEQ mostly. The best option for assault for DE are probably grotesques distantly followed by incubi. You could ally in the Cast of Players harlequin formations and count them as wyches if you already have the models. They do wyches' job far better than the wyches themselves, but are quite spendy in points. A warrior squad in a venom is probably the best option though.

As CptMetal mentioned the Razorwing is usually a better option the bomber because the missiles can be quite effective.
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 15:01

Skip the gear on Archon, give him Webway Portal, drop sslyths and the rest, pick 4 medusae in a Venom, watch as your opponents beg for mercy. Very Happy
Drop the wyches - they are very, very weak and will die I droves. We have much better CC options in this army. Our troops are shooty and you should stick to it. You might also consider picking 2-3 squads of Kabalites in Venoms - Raiders are super nice, but Venoms have huge range with their shots.
As stated earlier, pick Razorwing over Void, you might even want to get two, as they are very nice. Cronos is kind of a moot point here, he excels in armies where there is a lot of slow, foot-slogging guys, either switch him for a Talos or another Razorwing.
I am currently working on doing a breakdown of all Dark Eldar units on my channel, will post HQs and Troops & Elites this evening, so I will post a link to it, maybe you'll find some of my opinions there helpful.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints - my painting blog
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints
CptMetal
Dracon
CptMetal

Posts : 3020
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 15:18

If you prefer a gun boat (aka ten Warriors in a Raider with Splinter racks and possibly a night shield) or five in a Venom (dual Splinter Cannon of course and eventually a Blaster) is a hot topic. I used both and I think a mix of both is the key. The Venom squads have a better range but the Raider one can jink on 3+ and still shoot normally with the Warriors.

Against guard I used Phantasm launcher on my Sybarite and Haywire Grenades. It's expensive but it makes them a real multi threat. Guard without commissioner hate Phantasm launcher...
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 15:20

It's a Commissar! *BLAM!* Very Happy
Yeah, mixing is usually good here, I just suggested Venoms as another valid option, our little boats are very nifty.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints - my painting blog
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints
CptMetal
Dracon
CptMetal

Posts : 3020
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 15:22

Yeah. English is not my native language and I didn't bother teaching my phone that word. You knew what I was talking about...
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 15:25

Neither is mine. Smile Was not nitpicking, just found a place to drop a meme.

To not be spamming: you might want to look into Haemonculus Covens, their formations are amazing, like Dark Artisan or Grotesquerie.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints - my painting blog
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints
Fatespinner
Slave
Fatespinner

Posts : 15
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : Troy, NY

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 18:31

So I'm currently in the process of purchasing a fairly large army from someone (at a significant discount) and it looks like I'm going to soon be in possession of the following:

7th Edition Dark Eldar Codex
Homunculus Coven Codex
1x Archon
1x Drazhar
1x Homunculus
3x Razorwing Jetfighters
4x Venoms
7x Raiders
5x Wracks
10x Wyches
1x Talos
3x Reaver Bikes
5x Incubi
6x Grotesques
30+ Warriors
10x Trueborn Warriors
10x Scourges

A lot of it is stuff I wanted anyway, some of it are things that I wasn't really angling for but it comes as a package deal so I'm going to have it one way or another.  No Voidravens, but 3 Razorwings which seem to be regarded well in the comments above.

Knowing that my army is going to consist of the above (and only the above.... for now), it looks like I'll be able to run a lot of Raiders full of Warriors but not as many jetbikes as I'd hoped for initially.  I know that Grotesques seem pretty good, but what is the general consensus on Wracks and Incubi?  Are they worth using, possibly in a Venom?


Last edited by Fatespinner on Thu Jun 18 2015, 18:44; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 18:35

Wracks are superb, but mostly if you pick them in Formations form Covens. For example, a Scalpel Squadron is an excellent choice for Null Deployment. And they can pack ossefactors, which are super awesome.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints - my painting blog
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints
Fatespinner
Slave
Fatespinner

Posts : 15
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : Troy, NY

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 20:31

How do Dark Eldar handle Null Deployment? Am I missing something that allows them to bring Reserves in on Turn 1?
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 20:37

Scalpel Squadron is what you miss. Very Happy They come in from deep strike automatically turn one, two squads of 5 wracks in Venoms. If they score First Blood, they give you D3 Victory Points. With some positioning and target picking, you can easily pull of a null with that. And with an Ossefactor and some squishy unit out there in the open, you can go for that FB.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints - my painting blog


Last edited by mightydoughnut on Thu Jun 18 2015, 20:39; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints
Fatespinner
Slave
Fatespinner

Posts : 15
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : Troy, NY

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 20:38

Ahh, okay. So I'd need to get more Wracks before I can pull that one off. Maybe I'll try proxying some to try out the tactic a few times. Thanks!
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 18 2015, 20:40

I used null deployment with Wracks in few of my games on my channel, you might wanna check it out to see, how that went. Smile

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints - my painting blog
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints
CurstAlchemist
Wych
CurstAlchemist

Posts : 915
Join date : 2015-05-01

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 19 2015, 00:16

Just to help clarify, Scalpel Squadron is from the Haemonculus Coven Supplement.
Back to top Go down
doctorz
Hellion
doctorz

Posts : 64
Join date : 2013-07-03
Location : Madison WI

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 19 2015, 04:01

if your local meta is Marine and vehicle heavy then I recommend using all 3 razor wings the four venomsand as many true born and warriors with blasters as you can possibly fit into the list. Also, don't forget that you can run the Raiders and and venomsas fast attack choices. Dark Eldar are very good at running more than one detachment. if you put all of your vehicles into the army I think it will be pretty good but in order to do that you would have to run several detachments. Scourge's will also be good depending on what they're equipped with. the haywire blasters and the heat lances are both very good if you have a lot of armor to deal with.so much of what's good in our book comes in the fast attack slots. The real space Raiders detachment in the back of the book is your best friend.just remember that in order to get it you are giving up objective secured. which means the troops have little or no value beyond what they can actually kill on the table. so if you run that attachment there's really no need to take more than two to choices unless you want their dedicated transport.

I hope that helps some. Don't get discouraged if you lose your first few games. Dark Eldar are one of the hardest armies in 40k to play.the reward comes later because once you start beating players with better armies regularlyyou can feel good about knowing that you're just that much better than they are... And if you lose, you always have an excuse.
Back to top Go down
Fatespinner
Slave
Fatespinner

Posts : 15
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : Troy, NY

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 20 2015, 01:05

So by picking up just a few more Wracks, I've come up with the following list for my first game as Dark Eldar (1250 pts):

Dark Eldar Combined Arms Detatchment

Archon (Huskblade, Haywire Grenades, Shadow Field)
4x Incubi (with DK Klaivex) riding in:
-Venom w/splinter cannons)

10x Wracks (2x Ossefactors, Acothyst w/Agonizer & Stinger Pistol) riding in:
-Raider (Nightshields, Disintegrator Cannon)

10x Warriors (Sybarite, Blaster) riding in:
-Raider (Dark Lance, Nightshield, Splinter Racks)

10x Warriors (Sybarite, Blaster) riding in:
-Raider (Dark Lance, Nightshield, Splinter Racks)

2x Razorwing Jetfighters (Nightshields, 1 w/Disintegrator Cannons, 1 w/Dark Lances, both w/Splinter Cannons & Monoscythe Missiles)

Knowing that my local meta is mostly Marines (Blood Angels & Space Wolves) and vehicles (Imperial Guard tanks and Space Wolf Dreadnoughts), how does this look? Should I use Grotesques instead of Wracks in the Raider? I would need to get another Archon or a Haemonculus to run with them in order to prevent their Ld 3 from crippling them if I did. I'm just wondering if they're going to perform better against Marines than the Wracks will with the loadout above.


Last edited by Fatespinner on Sat Jun 20 2015, 01:52; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Fatespinner
Slave
Fatespinner

Posts : 15
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : Troy, NY

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 20 2015, 01:49

@doctorz wrote:
Don't get discouraged if you lose your first few games. Dark Eldar are one of the hardest armies in 40k to play.the reward comes later because once you start beating players with better armies regularlyyou can feel good about knowing that you're just that much better than they are... And if you lose, you always have an excuse.
I am very familiar with this because my primary army is Chaos Space Marines. It is very hard to win with them against most of my local opponents, because Imperials seem to do everything I can do... only better.

I'm hoping the Dark Kin of Commoragh can give me some unexpected tricks (not to mention some mobility that I sorely lack as Chaos) that will help me swing back towards victory!
Back to top Go down
mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 20 2015, 08:56

Drop the Incubi pick Grotesques - while their models are awesome, Incubi are at best ok. I mean, they can take on Termies and stuff, but Grots are just so much better it's not even a contest. Also, drop the acothyst - he costs too much for what he brings to the table. Grots can curb stomp almost anything, I even toppled wraithknights with them. Consider that. If you do take Grots, scratch the Archon and pick a Succubus. She assault characters in CC and packs a mean punch.
If your Sybarite has no haywire grenades, what's the point of sybarite?
You could also use a bit more anti-armor in dedicated unit - maybe drop the wracks and pick Trueborn with Blasters? Or a Ravager or two? Also, you can add a second pair of Dark Lances for flyer/tank hunting on your second Razorwing.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints - my painting blog
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints
spellcheck2001
Le Maitre Macabre
spellcheck2001

Posts : 1325
Join date : 2013-03-28
Location : La La Land

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 20 2015, 09:54

There is some great advice given. If I could throw my penny into the jar, I would say you have too many upgrades on your stuff (certainly on your razorwings). Night shields are not worth it on the razorwings (or raiders either really) as if you are forced to junk you are losing a turn of shooting anyway, just hope you do not die to that shot, and I would always take dark lances in them too. Once you have shot your missiles they are mean anti tank platforms.

The mighty doughnut has a great point about the succubus. She is much better than the archon in melee, and works very well as part of a grot unit. Also IMO the shadow field is grossly overpriced for what it does. Use the grots as your meat shield. A 2+ look out sir is just as good as the shadow field Smile

Incubi are nice and fluffy but grots are far meaner in practise. They have a massive boost to the number of their attacks with rampage, and their attacks also have instant death in a 6, which is massive!

_________________
clown  My DE project log  jocolor :- Harlequin Carnivale - La Danse Macabre

study  My Wargaming blog   cherry  :- Objective Secured
Back to top Go down
http://www.objectivesecured.blogspot.co.uk
spellcheck2001
Le Maitre Macabre
spellcheck2001

Posts : 1325
Join date : 2013-03-28
Location : La La Land

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 20 2015, 09:59

How about this?

+++ Fate spinner list (1240pts) +++

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1240pts) ++

+ HQ (95pts) +

Succubus (95pts) [Archite glaive, Splinter pistol]

+ Elites (165pts) +

Grotesques (165pts)
····Grotesque [Close combat weapon]
····Grotesque [Close combat weapon]
····Grotesque [Close combat weapon]
····Raider [Dark Lance]

+ Troops (580pts) +

Kabalite Warriors (170pts) [9x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Raider [Dark Lance, Splinter Racks]

Kabalite Warriors (170pts) [9x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Raider [Dark Lance, Splinter Racks]

Kabalite Warriors (120pts) [4x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors (120pts) [4x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack (400pts) +

Razorwing Jetfighter (140pts) [2 Dark Lances, 4x Monoscythe Missile, Twin-linked Splinter Rifle]

Razorwing Jetfighter (140pts) [2 Dark Lances, 4x Monoscythe Missile, Twin-linked Splinter Rifle]

Scourges (120pts) [Scourge]
····Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire blaster]
····Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire blaster]
····Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire blaster]
····Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire blaster]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

_________________
clown  My DE project log  jocolor :- Harlequin Carnivale - La Danse Macabre

study  My Wargaming blog   cherry  :- Objective Secured
Back to top Go down
http://www.objectivesecured.blogspot.co.uk
mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 20 2015, 10:08

Quote :
(or raiders either really)
You get snap shots on one/three shots, if you Jink with a Raider and you gain a 3+ Jink save with full BS shooting from the embarked unit. How can you NOT take NS when you use Raiders with Kabalites inside? I could understand not picking them if you plan to deliver a unit of Harlequins into CC turn 1, but otherwise? Alaways take NS on Raiders with shooty Splinters.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints - my painting blog
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/StarHorsePaints
spellcheck2001
Le Maitre Macabre
spellcheck2001

Posts : 1325
Join date : 2013-03-28
Location : La La Land

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 20 2015, 10:13

Kinda disagree on that one. 15pts if FAR too expensive for that IMO. A 4+ junk is still really good and the points can be better spent elsewhere

_________________
clown  My DE project log  jocolor :- Harlequin Carnivale - La Danse Macabre

study  My Wargaming blog   cherry  :- Objective Secured
Back to top Go down
http://www.objectivesecured.blogspot.co.uk
Fatespinner
Slave
Fatespinner

Posts : 15
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : Troy, NY

Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 20 2015, 10:17

Do grotesques have some way to bypass the 3+ Marine armor saves that I'm missing? Most of the close combat I'm expecting will be Blood Angels and Space Wolves, which also tend to run MSU instead of blobs. Are the grotesques still better than Incubi against these kind of threats?
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Dark Eldar Beginnings Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Beginnings   Dark Eldar Beginnings I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Dark Eldar Beginnings
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Army Lists
-
Jump to: