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 Venoms or Raiders?

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Venoms or Raiders?
Venom
Venoms or Raiders? Voteba133%Venoms or Raiders? Voteba15
 3% [ 1 ]
Raider
Venoms or Raiders? Voteba1316%Venoms or Raiders? Voteba15
 16% [ 5 ]
Both
Venoms or Raiders? Voteba1381%Venoms or Raiders? Voteba15
 81% [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 31
 
Poll closed

AuthorMessage
Mirarii
Hellion
Mirarii

Posts : 32
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Michigan

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PostSubject: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 03:31

Reading through the codex I can't seem to find many differences aside from the weapons and transport limit. It seems though, watching battle reports, and even the description for this particular sub forum, venoms are pretty popular. Anyone care to compare/contrast the two for me?

Edit: Or how about Hybrid? My idea of a strategy would be, using 2 venoms with the splinter cannon upgrade and have a squad of 4 kabs and a syb on each, then a raider (would have flickerfield and TGL) with a syren and 9 bloodbrides. (this would just be using the battleforce box and 2 venoms)
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 03:48

I want a third option that says "depends" because I think that's the best answer.

I probably use Raiders more than Venoms currently, but I think Venoms are an excellent vehicle and I don't have many lists (actually, I think only 1) that lack Venoms.

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Faceless
Slave
Faceless

Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-09-14
Location : Coventry, United Kingdom

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 04:13

I have voted Both. While I see a Raider being a great vehicle for carrying around bunches of troops, I'd prefer to mount smaller, more elite squads, such as my archon and his retinue on a Venom.
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 04:24

Both is not 'depends' but that's where I'm voting.

The issue is both vehicles serve a different purpose above and beyond their transport capacity. So the composition of the rest of the army starts to matter a whole lot when debating which is the superior option.

Raiders are valuable for alpha strike anti-mech to protect our units and pop transports.
Venoms are important as a tool to cut down infantry and deal with Lootas/Long Fangs/et al.

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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
Evil Space Elves

Posts : 3717
Join date : 2011-07-13
Location : Santa Cruz, ca

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 04:51

Though I prefer to paint Venoms over Raiders, they both are great options depending on the job. My lists always include both, though I have had trouble lately with mech armies...nah, still hate painting Raiders.

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Sorrowshard
Sybarite
Sorrowshard

Posts : 361
Join date : 2011-05-31

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 10:51

Yeah, painting anything raider like is like un-Anesthetized Root canal dentistry ...

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Nomic
Wych
Nomic

Posts : 559
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Finland

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 11:16

I use Venoms for warriors and Trueborn (and my Archon and incubi when I use them) since they do well in small squads and the Venom is easier to hide from enemy guns, and Raiders for Wytches and Wracks since they need the numbers to do anything.

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kenny3760
Sybarite
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Posts : 462
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Inverness Scotland

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 15:15

Both is what I voted, purely because depends isn't an option there. Really does depend on what else is in your list and what your particular need is.
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astorre
Hellion
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Posts : 76
Join date : 2011-07-12

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 15:43

Currently I'm trying out a WWP list with only 2 Raiders for vehicles, but in a mounted list I like a 4/5 split. 4 Raiders and 5 Venoms, or 4 Venoms and 5 Raiders depending on what I'm putting in them. I never give them anything other than Flickerfields and sometimes Nightshields, or Aethersails if they are coming in from reserve. But the more & more I fall in love with our FA choices the less I think I'll be using either.

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Raneth
Sybarite
Raneth

Posts : 467
Join date : 2011-06-12
Location : ridin' the Razor, cussin' at my Wyches

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 18:01

Love both. My insane infatuation with Venoms is over though - it seems one can never have too many DLs...

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Sorrowshard
Sybarite
Sorrowshard

Posts : 361
Join date : 2011-05-31

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 18:12

No, never too many DL's NEVAR !

Honestly the only quality you will see is quantity of lances, vs tanks they are jus ml's and me ultimately get jack all else....

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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 19:02

^^^
Brilliance is in the two posts above me.

If I wasn't going "both" I'll admit I would have voted 'Raider' because, I'm quite confident I can build tourney level lists without Venoms (I have done so) I think it would be much, much harder to do so without Raiders. The superiority in alpha strike via lances vs. blasters being the big deciding win there.

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Painjunky
Wych
Painjunky

Posts : 871
Join date : 2011-08-08
Location : Sunshine Coast

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 15 2011, 09:41

I like venoms, 6-8 of them and 1-3 raiders at 1750.

You must have AT in other places and know how to use it...

Most people will see i only have DLs on 3 ravagers and 1-3 raiders, screened by terrain and venoms, so they will shoot them up turn 1-2 even with cover saves right?... sounds like what you would do? That's all the time i need to move my beastmasters and blasters into range to pop vehicles. Venoms massacre the units that fall out. Haywire wyches and/or incubi from my raiders mop up.

Venoms waste heavy support units in cover (Longfangs/Lootas/MC) faster than raiders too.

Some of the best players out there take venom spam to tournaments and own everyone.

We are lucky to have 2 transports that are so uber cool.

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Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
Shadows Revenge

Posts : 2587
Join date : 2011-08-10
Location : Bmore

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 15 2011, 17:13

They are both tools to be used, and one is not vastly superior than the other (Im looking at you razorback) That being said I prefer venoms to raiders because we have so much AT elsewhere, but raiders are still a powerful tool that can help any day.

And yes, I agree with the "you can never have too many Dark Lance" line. 20+ dark matter is normal in my lists, and normally 3~4 are from raiders Razz

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GrenAcid
Sybarite
GrenAcid

Posts : 257
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Poland

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 15 2011, 20:51

Raider. Looks awesome on table and I love to paint it.

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Onemeanduck
Slave
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Posts : 19
Join date : 2011-09-06

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PostSubject: Re: Venoms or Raiders?   Venoms or Raiders? I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 16 2011, 04:58

one is a hot saw meant for cutting steel, one is a chainsaw for cutting organics... both have their place but if you try to cut wood with a hot saw your just making smoke.. Or burining out a chainsaw on steel....

Both are amazing, both are worthless at times.. I found against my buddies deathwing 12 shots at 2+ armor is better then 1 shot at 3+ shields... but then again vs my other friends mech guard... well.. ya...

I tend to lean towards raiders since I ALWAYS use my pair of razorwings and LOVE em!
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