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 1850 Tournament List

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JackKnife01
Sybarite
JackKnife01

Posts : 360
Join date : 2013-11-16
Location : Planning my next attack.

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PostSubject: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeThu May 07 2015, 08:26

So I have a tournament coming up and it is NOVA style. First time playing one of these buggers so I have to read the rules. Here is the list I submitted. Please review and make corrections as you see fit. Just please do me one thing, explain and elaborate upon your correction. I like seeing ideas and it helps me to better understand your viewpoint. I appreciate all comments and wish for all who are willing to participate. Thank you all very much for your time. Very Happy


HQ:
Archon-Agoniser, Blaster, The Armor of Misery, Shadowfield, Webway Portal, Haywire Grenades

Elites:
Kabalite Trueborn(5)-Blaster(4)
--Raider-Dark Lance, Night Shields
Kabalite Trueborn(5)-Blaster(4)
--Venom-Splinter Cannon

Troops:
Kabalite Warriors(10)-Blaster, Splinter Cannon
--Raider-Dark Lance, Night Shields, Splinter Racks
Kabalite Warriors(10)-Blaster, Splinter Cannon
--Raider-Dark Lance, Night Shields, Splinter Racks
Kabalite Warriors(10)-Blaster, Splinter Cannon
--Raider-Dark Lance, Night Shields, Splinter Racks

Fast Attack:
Razorwing Jetfighter-Dark Lance(2), Night Shields, Splinter Cannon
Scourges(5)-Heat Lance(4)
Scourges(5)-Haywire Blasters(4)

Heavy Support:
Ravager-Dark Lance(3), Night Shields
Ravager-Dark Lance(3), Night Shields

Dark Light Shots: 25
Poison With Movement: 62
Poison Without Movement: 68
Diss Shots: 0
Void Lance: 0
Heat Lance: 4
Haywire: 5
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mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeThu May 07 2015, 08:42

First thing's first - why such kitted out Archon? If he's going to be a close combat beatstick you should skip the blaster for a soul trap so he is more of a threat in challanges, also he could use a retinue - maybe skip one Ravager for a squad of Grotesques? They are insanely strong in close combat and afford you a really nice protection squad for your archon.

Second: you have huge ammonuts of anti-tank/anti-TEQs firepower, maybe skip the Ravagers? They are way weaker in this codex and points from them would free you for some Groteques for your Archon or an additional Razorwing who does their job and does it better.

Third: if you take Scourges with Heat Lances, add a Webway Portal Archon with a blaster to them - the unit won't scatter and you have a nice, powerful drop-threat on the board.

Fourth: Night Shields on a Razorwing? Skip it. If the opponent wastes a turn to shot at your flyer, he already made out his points and due to it leaving the board now and then makes jinking it an essential "Weapons destroyed" result on all missiles. Night Shields are only really useful on Raiders - you only snap shot with one gun and that's not its primary role anyway.

Worth of note - if you kite out your Archon for tank shooting, just take WWP, a Blaster and Haywire Grenades, as any more points invested are wasted.

TL DR: Either add a retinue to your Archon or skip the close combat idea alltogether, Succubus is a better cc choice anyway. Add a WWP HQ to your Scourges with Heat Lances or their melta effect is in risk of failing. I'd skip the Ravagers as they offer very little - at 15 points more you get a Razorwing with 2 Dark Lances, 4 AP5 Large Blast S6 bombs and a Splinter Cannon.

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JackKnife01
Sybarite
JackKnife01

Posts : 360
Join date : 2013-11-16
Location : Planning my next attack.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeThu May 07 2015, 08:57

You make a very valid point on the Razorwing with the Night Shields. The reason for the Archon being kitted out like that is if he gets into hand to hand I don't want to give up Slay the Warlord. Now why would he be there? Simple, I put him with the Scourges. He is mainly a tank hunting Archon. The point still remains vaild, I might take a Succubus and just give her Haywire Grenades instead. She can drop in and as the Scourges destroy things, she would be able to eat a drop pod army by herself and kill TEQ pretty well on her own, not to mention she would be cheaper...Sad point is though it reduces my Dark Light Weapons, which true enough only brings me to 24....

As for the Ravager, the threat bubble of them is too good. you are talking about a 48 inch threat bubble for two shooting at full ballistic skill, with one snap shooting. That is pretty good, plus most people still remember them from the day past, where they were the thing to shoot at. If the thought of shooting them saves a raider, my Archon, or something else, then by all means. Not to mention, with it I can be more able. True enough the Razorwing bring way more to the fight.....Hmm....You have given me great feedback I will start crunching numbers as I always do, and of course testing this both of these in action...well this one has already been tested numerous times lol.

Also worth nothing, losing the Ravagers reduces the number of Dark Light weapons from 25 (24 without the Archon with Blaster) to 18, far below what I am comfortable with. I try to stay around 20-21 Dark Light weapons, more if I can. Not to mention, I just love my Ravagers, I am a weird one I know.
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Nariaklizhar
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Join date : 2012-04-08
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeFri May 08 2015, 05:00

I like your list. A few changes, most of which have already been said...

Commit with your archon. Its a point sink to tool him up for both cc and shooting. May I suggest just the wwp and blaster? You have a shooty army, just go with it.

Dropping the night shields all the way around would free up a TON of points. Maybe enough for another ravager? I too like my ravager. You can never have enough dark light! At least drop the ns on the ravagers and razorwing. I rarely jink with them because then they become pretty useless for a turn
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TheNamelessArchon
Slave
TheNamelessArchon

Posts : 18
Join date : 2015-04-26

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeWed May 13 2015, 20:15

Drop the blaster on the archon. The archangel of pain is really powerful combined with armor of misery but highly situational. Its worth wasting 25 points and risk never using it just to have it. I would also focus my list more. Example is your kabalites they have a blaster splinter cannon dark lance and splinter racks. That makes no sense to me, why not just run splinter cannon and splinter racks and save some points on stuff other units can do better. Scourges... Haywire blaster>heatlance so do 8 haywire blasters or I like to run 5 scourges with 4 splinter cannons. I'd do 5 trueborn/4 shredders in that raider joined by the archangel of pain which then uses the hull of a raider to measure its bubble from. Ravagers and flyers don't need nightshields. Your opponent will either have enough firepower to destroy them regardless of 3+ cover or completely ignore them. The points could be better spent elsewhere. Again with your razorwing 2 dark lances and a splinter cannon...its not likely to take out another flyer with 2 lances and you have the potential to have tons of anti tank firepower on the ground. I found that the basic razorwing does ok with no upgrades but the splinter cannon is a nice boost
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mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeWed May 13 2015, 20:25

Quote :
4 shredders

Shredders are a waste of points, in 90% situations, blasters are better on Trueborn, as they also allow tank hunting and are overally better against all units and you don't have to rely on luck so much.
Quote :
Its worth wasting 25 points and risk never using it just to have it.
25 points is Armour of Misery, Haywire Grenades and you can take a Parasite's Kiss. Or an actually useful Animus Vitae at 20 points. Archangel of Pain is very subpar and very conditional. It's never worth it to waste the points, unless you are sure you will play against an army that the thing will be actually useful.

Dark Lances are not on Kabalites, they are on Raiders, which can be helpful in opening a transport or something, as a vehicle can shot at something other than the unit inside. Or to scare away an approaching dreadnought, same goes for Blaster in Kabalite Squad - it just affords versatility at a price of one less shot. Splinter Cannon is personal, but usually a good choice - if you move the model, you lose two shots, but if you do, you usually move into 12' range, so you maximize the use of kabalites in the Raider.


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TheNamelessArchon
Slave
TheNamelessArchon

Posts : 18
Join date : 2015-04-26

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeThu May 14 2015, 01:15

You want the archangel of pain if you ever want the chance to take out 2 units of battle suits a squad of firewarriors and a unit of broadsides with one attack. Shredders on trueborn are not better by any means but they have a larger impact on the deepstrike with the archangel.
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JackKnife01
Sybarite
JackKnife01

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeThu May 14 2015, 04:33

Blasters have better use in terms of popping armor and killing heavy infantry. Shr dders cannot touch tanks of higher armor. Anything AV13 does nothing to. Archangel has very little in terms of unit with actual leadship and is not needed as I do not like nor care for leadership battles

Also, you are talking about a weapon that, while great at inflicting wounds, allows armor saves. Not to mention against MC and the like you wound on 4s, Blasters on 2. Blasters can double touch models with.multiple wounds that are MEQ or TEQ. Also forces invul saves instead of armor. Wraithknights are even forced to take cover/feel no pain rolls against a well placed blaster. The shedder wounds on 6s and they get armor AND feel no pain.
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mightydoughnut
Sybarite
mightydoughnut

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-05-06

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeThu May 14 2015, 07:21

Quote :
You want the archangel of pain if you ever want the chance to take out 2 units of battle suits a squad of firewarriors and a unit of broadsides with one attack.
You just shown exactly why I said its a very situational weapon with this example - I don't even want to begin on how lucky you must be (or your opponent must be so epicly dumb) that he positions his units in such a way than you can harm them with a measly 9' attack AND see him fail LD tests so much all squads die, but any player worth his salt (meaning most players on non-crap tier tourneys) will take your "combo" into consideration when positioning his unit. Also, Interceptor against a squad that enters from Deep Strike to use the "combo" when we are talking about Tau.

Quote :
Shredders on trueborn are not better by any means but they have a larger impact on the deepstrike with the archangel.
Can you explain how they have this impact? Because I can't find anything it does at S6 no AP small Blast 12' shots that can be easily avoided with good unit positioning, not to mention we have way better weapons against hordes, like 4 Medusae with an WPP Archon in a Venom (they eat blobs of marines, guards, fire warriors and anything that has 3+ save or higher and T5 or lower for breakfast). Or you can just shoot crap with Razorwing's large blast rockets.

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TheNamelessArchon
Slave
TheNamelessArchon

Posts : 18
Join date : 2015-04-26

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeThu May 14 2015, 22:03

When you give them -5 LD they are not as likely to pass.  With 1850 there's a lot of stuff to deploy and even with the best deployment ever something is going to be open. Take into account that your measuring archangel range from the hull of a raider that doesn't scatter on the deep strike. The shredders forced 9 saves to be taken on a unit already ravaged by the archangel. They work well together. Where as if you want blasters you give them to trueborn in venoms

But like you said its easily countered and useless in more than half the games you play due to fearless. But it really is worth it for that one time it blows up
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Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tournament List   1850 Tournament List I_icon_minitimeTue May 19 2015, 07:46

Please do not douple post but use edit function instead. You may bump your thread every 48 hours to get more answers. ///Vasara

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