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 Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D

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Bleaksoul Brethren
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Hellion
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Join date : 2015-05-01

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PostSubject: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeSun May 03 2015, 23:38

So hi, I've just finished putting together my first 1500pt list and could do with some feedback please it goes like this:

+ HQ +

Archon [Huskblade, Kabalite Armour, Shadow field, Splinter Pistol, The Parasite's Kiss, Webway portal]

Haemonculus [Agoniser, Liquifier Gun, Scissorhand, The Animus Vitae]

+ Elites +

Incubi [9x Incubi]
····Klaivex [Klaive]

Wracks [5x Wracks]
····Acothyst [Flesh Gauntlet, Venom Blade]
····Raider [Disintegrator cannon]
····Wrack with special weapon [Ossefactor]

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [10x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon [Dark Lance]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Raider [Disintegrator cannon, Splinter Racks]
····Sybarite [Close Combat Weapon, Splinter Rifle]

Kabalite Warriors [10x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon [Dark Lance]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Raider [Disintegrator cannon, Splinter Racks]
····Sybarite [Close Combat Weapon, Splinter Rifle]

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [5x Scourge]
····Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire blaster]
····Solarite [Power lance, Splinter pistol]

+ Heavy Support +

Voidraven Bomber [Four implosion missiles, Nightshield, Two void lances]

The Archaon enters the battle through the web way along with the Incubi. The Haemonculus goes with the Wracks on their raider. The aim is all about hiring hard and fast and building up the pain quickly. The bomber is there to hit heavy armour and generally support (plus it looks awesome!)

Constructive criticism much appreciated.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
Sybarite
Bleaksoul Brethren

Posts : 252
Join date : 2014-09-02
Location : San Antonio

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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeMon May 04 2015, 00:56

I think you are very light on anti tank even with the scourges and bomber. Do you want this list to be competitive or fluffy or somewhere in between? I'd drop a incubi and toss them into a raider for some more mobility.
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Deamon
Sybarite
Deamon

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Join date : 2012-05-09
Location : Drummondville

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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeMon May 04 2015, 02:14

I think 2 HQs is too much at 1500 pts.
Also the Voidraven isn't worth his points. If you drop those you should be able to squeeze 1-2 Ravagers (with Dark Lances) which would seriously improve your AT.
I would advise against heavy weapons on the warriors since it will limit their mobility.

In my experience 9 incubus will lead you to murder your target and then get trashed in the next shooting phase. You need enough incubi to kill just enough models in your opponent unit so you can finish them in your opponents turn. My sweet spot is at 6...but honestly, Grotesques are a better assault unit/archon bodyguards.
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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeMon May 04 2015, 07:25

Thanks Bleaksoul. Hmm, fluffy or competitive? With my fantasy army it's all about the fluff so it's hard to resist stuff that looks cool (Incubi/Bomber), but I did start this with the intention of it being a killer list above all. I thought the web way from the Archon would answer the mobility issue for the Incubi rather than another raider, do you reckon I'd  need a raider as well?

Thanks Deamon . Good points, the idea behind two Hq's was to split the enemy's attention rather than have them focus everything on one HQ, and also get the benefits of both of course, I'm used to taking several lords in Fantasy and having them wreak mayhem in several areas of the battle field.
Do you reckon it's worth having one unit of troops with a heavy weapon and one without our focusing all squads on light armaments and then close combat? What are they best at?
I originally had grotesques but they are so expensive financially that I had to drop them Sad
I'll reduce the number of Incubi as I think that's a really good point and I assume one you only realise once you start playing.
I really like the two aircraft that DE offer and don't like the look of the Ravagers at all, so it makes it hard to swap to a Ravager. What is the other aircraft like for anti armour?

If I were to go with 1 HQ only would you recommend Archon or Haemonculus? I do like the idea of the Haemonculus ability to advance the power from plain thing
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Dark_Kindred
Kabalite Warrior
Dark_Kindred

Posts : 207
Join date : 2012-12-30

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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeMon May 04 2015, 07:57

Way too much kit, not enough troops, and not enough guns. You don't, for example, need or want Dark Lances with your Kabalite Warriors because they will be moving around. The Sybarites you can take or leave.

You will want to reduce the size of your Incubi squad and mount them in a vehicle because they will be less vulnerable to small arms fire. You are going to want to keep cutting unnecessary upgrades until you can add more Troops, or Heavy Support, or both.

With Grotesques, their Finecast molds are so terrible that you can get multiple copies from GW. Things got so bad that the Customer Services guys cut open and manually inspected the last one they sent me. You could buy Ogre Kingdoms Ogres, or Rat Ogres, or Hordes Everblight Warspears and kit bash with the Talos Kit.

The Razorwing Jetfighter is a solid multipurpose aircraft. Two Dark Lances and a bunch of strength 6 missiles. It's not Crimson Hunter Exarch but it can get the job done.

If you don't like the look of the Ravagers, you could do some modeling with Kabalites hanging off the side of a Ravager with Dark Lances. It's a cheap conversion that gets you milage of something you would use otherwise (infantry mounted Dark Lance).

Also, I too love the Voidraven Bomber. If nothing else, it'll scare the **** out of your opponent while looking classy.

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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeMon May 04 2015, 08:08

That's great feedback, thank you Dark_kindred. What do you think on the HQ question?

I'm trying to strike a balance between the inevitable "competitive army vs real money" dilemma, and I can afford to buy this list which is why I've pimped it out with so much kit to them push the points up to 1500pts. But yeah, you're right, I've perhaps gone too far, I want clear roles for the units and these perhaps aren't.

I think I might put the Incubi in a Venom which will mean only having to buy one box of them, plus the Venom's look great!
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Dark_Kindred
Kabalite Warrior
Dark_Kindred

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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeMon May 04 2015, 08:56

Personally, I have always been a fan of the Succubus. I have not done a lot of play testing (I've played 3 games in the past 7 months). I would run an Archon though. However, I'm also pretty anti-Coven for taste reasons so take my advice with caution.

Well, there are all sorts of ways to save. Consider your Troop choices: they clock in at $66.25 before tax (US$). A min squad of warriors with a Blaster clocks in at $44.50. You can take the Shredder and the Blast Pistol in the Warrior box to make a second Venom squad. The Ravager tip I gave you saves $12.50.

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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeMon May 04 2015, 08:58

Thanks Dark_Kindred, excellent advice, much appreciated
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Bleaksoul Brethren
Sybarite
Bleaksoul Brethren

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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeMon May 04 2015, 18:14

@Deamon wrote:
I think 2 HQs is too much at 1500 pts.
Also the Voidraven isn't worth his points.  If you drop those you should be able to squeeze 1-2 Ravagers (with Dark Lances) which would seriously improve your AT.
I would advise against heavy weapons on the warriors since it will limit their mobility.

In my experience 9 incubus will lead you to murder your target and then get trashed in the next shooting phase.  You need enough incubi to kill just enough models in your opponent unit so you can finish them in your opponents turn.  My sweet spot is at 6...but honestly, Grotesques are a better assault unit/archon bodyguards.

Stealing from Deamon I like to have my incubi at 4 with 1 a klaivex if I am tossing them with an archon just so they can go into a venom ( I have a man crush on venoms). Since you don't like the ravager looks I would suggest going with 2-3 squads of scourges with at least 1-2 squads having haywire blasters. The sergeant in each of the warrior squads is a bit much for a gun ship as is the sergeant in the scourges. Dark lances aren't very good in the warrior squad in the transport because if they move the Dark lance has to snap shoot.

So in summary my suggestions and personal preference would be to drop the Dark lances from the squad, drop the incubi down to 4 to get them into a venom (with 2 splinter cannons) with the archon, give the archon a soul trap, give the haemonc 1-2 of those 3 weapons, drop the sergeants from the 2 warrior squads and scourges, and add another scourge squad. (I don't know the exact points but this should be an even switch)
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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeMon May 04 2015, 21:02

Thank you all so far, great  advice. My list is now as follows, what do you all reckon?

+ HQ +

Archon [Huskblade, Kabalite Armour, Shadow field, Splinter Pistol, The Parasite's Kiss, Webway portal]

Haemonculus [Agoniser, Liquifier Gun, Scissorhand, The Animus Vitae]

+ Elites +

Incubi [4x Incubi]
····Klaivex [Klaive]
····Venom [Twin Linked Splinter Rifles]

Wracks [4x Wracks]
····Acothyst [Flesh Gauntlet, Venom Blade]
····Venom [Twin Linked Splinter Rifles]
····Wrack with special weapon [Ossefactor]

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [10x Kabalite Warrior]
····Raider [Disintegrator cannon, Enhanced Aethersails, Splinter Racks]

Kabalite Warriors [10x Kabalite Warrior]
····Raider [Disintegrator cannon, Enhanced Aethersails, Splinter Racks]

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [5x Scourge]

Scourges [5x Scourge]

+ Heavy Support +

Talos
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]

Voidraven Bomber [Four implosion missiles, Nightshield, Two void lances]

Haywire blasters for the Scourges or the Talos do you think?
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Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeTue May 05 2015, 10:52

Please do not double post but use edit funtion instead. Yuo may bumb your topic every 48hours to raise it up again. ///Vasara

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LukeC
Slave
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Join date : 2015-05-06

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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitimeWed May 06 2015, 12:02

I would use at least 3 haywire blasters in each scourge squad as this does 1.66 hull points worth of damage to a tank per turn on average rolls, unless the tank gets a save from cover or invulnerable saves. If a tank needs to die in a turn the two squads can combine fire.

The haywire on the talos has a better chance of hitting than a scourge squad. Putting the haywire on the talos also mounts it on a hard to hurt platform

What is the plan for the haemonculus? he can't fit with any infantry squad at the moment, assuming the archon fills the incubi's venom as the wracks are minimum size 5 models, and need the 5 to get the ossifactor.
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list please :D   Constructive critism first ever 1500pt list  please :D I_icon_minitime

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