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 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!

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omkara
Kabalite Warrior
omkara

Posts : 128
Join date : 2015-04-05

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PostSubject: 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!    500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!  I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 25 2015, 17:42

Based on advise regarding the lack of AV I update my list, but not in this post. The actual updated list is in one of my replies.

Allright, my final attempt at the creation of a Dark Eldar army list based on the Shardstorm starter set. I roll with the Realspace Raiders since my opponents, friends that play with Orks, Tyranids, Grey Knights or Ultra Marines, will most likely all use Combined Arms Detachments, nullifying the pro's of me having that same Detachment. +5 and +6 cover saves might come in useful.

Rerolling warlords traits seems useful, but I've read that sometimes even with tournaments (especially with friends) you can just pick your Warlord Trait from the start rather than roll a D6 for it, in which case I'd always choose Labyrinthine Cunning, but if I'd had to roll, I'd probably opt for rolling on the Strategic Traits chart, in which case I'd probably have to go for a CAD because of Ideal Mission Commander.

Anyway, I decided to go for a 500 point army as this seems to be the average small army point cost. These units together minimally cost 381 points, but who plays 381 point games? So I upgraded my units with wargear I think really adds to their use which I will address in the list below. I appreciate any kind of feedback, especially on whether my tactical logic is flawed or perhaps correct, but just keep in mind that my cashflow sadly does not allow to purchase anything else other than Shardstorm at the moment.  

Ps. Yes I am a competitive player. I just love to win. According to mathhammer, I should be able to do a lot of damage with this small army and I think I should be able to play them ninja-like enough to win with just a bunch of Wyches.


++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Realspace Raiders Detachment) (501pts) ++

+ HQ (115pts) +

Succubus - [Archite glaive, Haywire Grenades, The Armour of Misery]

I've given her the Archite Glaive because one of my potential opponents plays with Grey Knights and since one of their troop choices is in Terminator armour, an AP2 piercing close combat weapon seems like a valid choice, though I must say that I would most likely try to shoot these guys with Heat Lances (causing 0,741 wounds) and mop up the final 2-3 Terminators in melee, like with Rendering Hammer Of Wrath attacks from the Reavers (an average of 7 Cluster Caltrops attacks will cause 1.134 wounds without rending) and a Furious Charging Succubus, which, according to mathhammer, could kill 1,778 Terminators.

Despite that I'm running her in the Raider-Wych unit, which means she will be surrounded by "Look Out, Madam" flesh-shields, I thought that giving her the Armour Of Misery (just incase the Raider blows up or the unit gets targeted by templates) might add a little extra survivability. The extra -2LD seems useful for either eliminating opponents that Fallback in the Assault Phase, or just making them Fallback. That being said, do I really want to destroy or make a unit fallback in my own Assault Phase, seeing how I then would be open for target practice in the Shooting Phase of my opponents turn. What is your opinion on this? Perhaps it's better to take the Animus Vitae?

Last, I decided to provide her with a Haywire Grenade, since such a high BS should help out when targeting that sporadic vehicle unit.


+ Troops (240pts) +

Wyches
4x Wych
1x Wych - [Hydra Gauntlets]
Venom - [Splinter Cannon]

Because of the 2 obligatory Troop choices, I had to split up my only Wych squad into 2 units of 5 models. I decided that one small unit should be fielded in a Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons. I think all of you will agree on 2 Splinter Cannons being a good choice.

Wyches
4x Wych
1x Wych - [Hydra Gauntlets]
Raider - [Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails]

Since this Wych unit is being joined from the start by the Succubus, I didn't think it was important to also add a Hekatrix. Preferably I'd give both small units Hekatrixes with Agonisers, but then the point cost would increase as well and it wouldn't be 500 points anymore.

The Raider is their method of transport. I decided to give them an Enhanced Aethersail to be able to move up to 24" flatout out of harms way after deep striking, should this be necessary. The Dark Lance seemed the most logical choice just to have more anti-vehicle options.

I did not give the Raider a Night Shield, because well, if I can actually play with a chosen Warlord Trait, I have 2 chances for a Night Fight, so I'd at least have a 3+ Jink save in turn 1. On a side note, I'd have found it more useful if the Night Shield would confer Shrouded rather than Stealth since this actually has synergy with Night Fighting.


+ Fast Attack (146pts) +

Reavers - [2x Cluster caltrops]
4x Reaver
2x Reaver - [Heat lance]

The Reavers I decided to put together in 1 unit. Would it be smart to make 2 smaller units out of these since I could be more "all over the place". The whole idea behind this unit is purely supportive.

Hit & Run on enemy units (with potentially nasty Hammer Of Wrath Attacks through those extra Cluster Caltrops) that are afterwards going to be charged by a Wych unit as well, but making sure they overwatch fire on my Reavers instead of those much more fragile Wyches.

They can also go vehicle hunting or just blast enemies with thick armour.

Blocking line of sight if needed and jinking 3+ saves, maybe even 2+ saves when Night Fighting is on. I did opt to give them Heat Lances because they do have the means to get in close, real quick if need be.

On a final note, I'm thinking about Deep Striking both the Venom Wych unit and the Raider Wych unit and just starting with the Reavers in turn one, since they should be easier to hide. I like the concept of a null deployment, allthough this isn't exactly that. Do you think Deep Striking close combat units is a good idea, especially since they can't disembark on that turn, so the skimmers, after Deep Striking, will first need to flatout out of line of sight in hopes of being able to deliver the passengers close enough for them to consider charging in the next turn.

That being said, I'm not familiar enough with the rules, but the logic behind this would be that if I can wait with Deep Striking untill turn 3, my Wyches will all have Feel No Pain on 5+ which seems useful for such a fragile unit. That is, unless the rules dictate that I actually must roll for Deep Strike deployment, each turn, regardless of my preferred tactics?


Thanks for reading. I hope I can get some useful tips!


Last edited by omkara on Sun Apr 26 2015, 21:05; edited 1 time in total
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omkara
Kabalite Warrior
omkara

Posts : 128
Join date : 2015-04-05

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PostSubject: Re: 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!    500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!  I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 26 2015, 14:08

I'm guessing, since it's only a 500 point list and I mentioned not being able to purchase models outside of the Shardstorm starter kit at that time, that it's probably hard or pointless to provide me with advise as there's not much option for change in this list.

The only advise I could be given is on the subject of wargear and that if I wear to increase my list to 1000 points it would most likely look like this:


++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Realspace Raiders Detachment) (1001pts) ++

+ HQ (120pts) +

Succubus (120pts) [Archite glaive, Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, The Animus Vitae]

+ Elites (145pts) +

Incubi (145pts) [4x Incubi]
Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Troops (425pts) +

Kabalite Warriors (215pts) [7x Kabalite Warrior]
Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon (up to 1 for 10 models) [Splinter cannon]
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
Raider [Dark Lance, Nightshield, Splinter Racks]
Sybarite [Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Rifle]

Wyches (210pts) [6x Wych]
Hekatrix [Agoniser, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Pistol]
Raider [Disintegrator cannon]
Wych with Wych Weapon [Two hydra gauntlets]
Wych with Wych Weapon [Two hydra gauntlets]
Wych with Wych Weapon [Two hydra gauntlets]

+ Fast Attack (311pts) +

Razorwing Jetfighter (165pts) [2 Dark Lances, 4x Monoscythe Missile, Nightshield, Splinter Cannon]

Reavers (146pts) [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!    500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!  I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 26 2015, 14:56

How long have you played Dark Eldar? How many games have you used wyches? Just curious
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omkara
Kabalite Warrior
omkara

Posts : 128
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PostSubject: Re: 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!    500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!  I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 26 2015, 15:36

@Nariaklizhar wrote:
How long have you played Dark Eldar? How many games have you used wyches? Just curious

I haven't played Warhammer 40k for roughly 15 years. I've watched all SkaredCast video's on the Dark Eldar and read numerous pages on battle tactics. I also, recently, watched a lot of Dark Eldar oriented battle reports which helped me to conclude that most people, that play to win, take the Venom spam approach, allthough there are people that actually use Wyches and still win.

While I do like winning, I like looking at a widely diverse army even more. My eventual goal is to at least own 1 unit of each from the entire list rather than buying numerous amounts of the same unit.

Might not instant win me any tournaments, but I'm guessing that it also has to do with how you play. Trying to keep your units out of line of sight, utilizing null deployments and just generally using ninja tactics should, in theory, help you win a battle and at the very least help me find the best way to play each different type of unit.
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!    500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!  I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 26 2015, 18:33

You need to have more to deal with heavy armour and tanks. Wyches used to be able to make a bunch of haywire nades, but since they lost that (combined they aren't really that good at cc) people have given up. Thats just my opinion. Your best options are dark light, MCs, scourges, Grots, and reavers
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!    500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!  I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 26 2015, 18:35

I recently played 500 pts against SM and he had 2 rhinos, a dread, and a landspeeder. Poison doesn't touch any of these
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omkara
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omkara

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PostSubject: Re: 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!    500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!  I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 26 2015, 20:49

Thank you for your reply!

@Nariaklizhar wrote:
You need to have more to deal with heavy armour and tanks. Wyches used to be able to make a bunch of haywire nades, but since they lost that (combined they aren't really that good at cc) people have given up. Thats just my opinion. Your best options are dark light, MCs, scourges, Grots, and reavers

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) (501pts) ++

+ HQ (100pts) +

Succubus (100pts) [Archite Glaive, Haywire Grenades]

+ Troops (255pts) +

Wyches (125pts) [4x Wych]
Hekatrix [Haywire Grenades]
Raider [Dark Lance]

Wyches (130pts) [4x Wych]
Hekatrix [Haywire Grenades]
Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack (146pts) +

Reavers (73pts) [1x Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
1x Reaver Jetbike [Heat Lance]

Reavers (73pts) [1x Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
1x Reaver Jetbike [Heat Lance]

In terms of anti-vehicle, this really is the best that I can do with the Wych Cult Shardstorm box. That being said, how much of a threat is a Rhino really? Even with the Storm Bolter upgrade it's not that intimidating to be honest. (that being said, I think my opponent would prefer taking a Razorback with Heavy Flamer and that would indeed be intimidating) I would first target the Land Speeder, since it has only 2 hull points and 10 AV all around, but has the potential to be the most damaging with it's standard Heavy Bolter as long as I stay away from those Heavy Flamers.

Assuming those marines will eventually get out of their Rhino's they will be slaughtered by my Reavers. According to mathhammer, even only 3 of my Reavers could, on average, kill 4 marines, so if needed I can split up my 6 reavers into two smaller units of 3. If I'd charge 5 Marines with my Wyches, at least 2 would die from overwatch, while charging them with my Reavers, only 1 would die, and that's assuming they were smart enough to bring a flamer for Wall Of Death.

While Wyches themselves would struggle to kill even 1 marine in melee, the Succubus might kill 2. The goal would at the very least be to keep these Wyches out of combat untill they at least have Feel No Pain on a 5+ and preferably a Furious Charge.

In the meantime, I'd just zoom arround the battlefield with the Reavers taking pot shots and or just trying to stay out of range in general and just focussing on some objectives. The Cluster Caltrops, combined with the Heat Lances and a scoring hit from the Dark Lance, could certainly destroy the Land Speeder without all too much effort and I'd be deepstriking as close as possible to vehicles in hopes of tossing in a Haywire Grenade and if I land too far away, I'd just flatout out of line of sight.

The Dreadnought could be a problem, but not an impossible obstacle to overcome. At least, this is how I'd imagine things to go down.
This is a list I would NOT like to fight:

++ Space Marines: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (500pts) ++

Chapter Tactics [Ultramarines]

+ HQ (65pts) +

Librarian (65pts)
Power Armour [Force Sword]

+ Elites (115pts) +

Dreadnought (115pts) ]Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer]
Dreadnought Power Fist ]Heavy Flamer]

+ Troops (260pts) +

Tactical Squad (130pts) ]Flamer, 4x Space Marine]
Razorback ]Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer]
Space Marine Sergeant [Bolter, Chainsword]

Tactical Squad (130pts) ]Flamer, 4x Space Marine]
Razorback ]Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer]
Space Marine Sergeant [Bolter, Chainsword]

+ Fast Attack (60pts) +

Land Speeder Squadron (60pts)
Land Speeder ]Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer]
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omkara
Kabalite Warrior
omkara

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PostSubject: Re: 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!    500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!  I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 26 2015, 21:43

What about this 500 point list? It's about the same price as the Wych Cult Shardstorm.

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Realspace Raiders Detachment) (500pts) ++

+ HQ (10pts) +

Court of the Archon (10pts) [Lhameans]

+ Troops (230pts) +

Kabalite Warriors (110pts) [4x Kabalite Warrior]
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors (110pts) [4x Kabalite Warrior]
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
Venom

+ Fast Attack (270pts) +

Razorwing Jetfighter (150pts) [2 Dark Lances]

Scourges (120pts) [1x Scourge]
4x Scourge with Special / Heavy Weapon [Haywire Blaster]
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: 500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!    500 points Wych Cult Shardstorm - need some opinions!  I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 26 2015, 22:14

I like it!
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