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 [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon

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omkara
Kabalite Warrior
omkara


Posts : 128
Join date : 2015-04-05

[ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon Empty
PostSubject: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 05 2015, 18:04

Greetings,

Before I rush my purchases for these models I would love to have some feedback on the army I have in mind. Not sure if it's original, but it at least seems like a very beastly approach to victory.  The following consists out of 3 HQ, 2 ELITE and 2 HEAVY choices.

Formation - Grotesquerie

Grotesques x4, Liquifier Gun x3, Abarration, Agoniser = 220 points
+
Raider, Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails, Night Shield = 80 points
+
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Scissorhand = 95 points

This part of the formation will be deployed right from the start behind whatever cover is available. (a question comes to mind if the Night Shield adds +1 to stealth when you are "Night Fighting"). In my turn I will use the Aethersails to fly 24" to the closest enemy. Counting on the fact that they will most likely try to shoot first, using Jink + Night Shield to get a 3+ invulnerable save. Should they destroy my Raider and/or charge me this unit can put up 4 Walls Of Liquid after which I'm fairly confident that they will survive the Assault Phase.

Grotesques x4, Liquifier Gun x2, Abarration, Agoniser = 205 points
+
Archon, Armor Of Misery, Archangel Of Pain, Power Sword, Soul-Trap, Phantasm grenade launcher, Webway Portal = 175 points

The second part of the Grotesquerie formation will arrive, hopefully before my first group of Grotesques isn't completely destroyed, to bring the fear. I will have this unit teleport right within 6" of a target unit I would like to have defeated and first start of with Liquifier Guns after which I will toss in some Phantasm Grenades, which, in combination with the -2 LD (armor of mistery) + -1LD (freakish spectacle), should really help troll my enemy.

I could also opt directly from the start to use my Archangel Of Pain (which also adds another -2 LD) but to max chances I am considering to wait for the second Dark Artisan formation to get into play and add yet another -1 LD (2nd freakish spectacle), but only if they arrive in the exact same turn. Otherwise I will have to use AoP right away just to make sure I don't blow that chance.

Formation - Dark Artisan

Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Scissorhand, Webway Portal = 130 points
+
Talos, Liquifier Gun, Haywire Blaster = 145 points
+
Cronos, Spirit Probe, Spirit Vortex = 150 points

My idea behind this Formation is to have them "deep strike" through a Webway Portal basically next to whichever unit I would like to have destroyed. Counting on 2 Liquifier Gun and 1 Spirit Syphon template after which the Spirit Vortex and then toss up a Wall of Liquid and Spirit Syphoning in awaiting the upcoming assault.

I will try to group my 3 units close enough so all can enjoy an as high as possible Feel No Pain throw and to constantly have the Archon force enemies, within 6" to have to take a Fear test on -4 LD. Also for Anti-Tank purposes I'm probably relying mostly on the Smash ability of the Talos and Cronos, should the Dark Lance and Haywire Blasters fail to help me out.

--

So what do you think?
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Hellstrom
Wych
Hellstrom


Posts : 515
Join date : 2014-11-24
Location : South Central England

[ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 05 2015, 23:41

You don't have any HQ, Elites or Heavy's, which was your original criteria. You have 2 Formations. Your formations builds look ok, I wouldn't bother WWPing the second Grot squad though. Just burn over the table.
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omkara
Kabalite Warrior
omkara


Posts : 128
Join date : 2015-04-05

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PostSubject: Re: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06 2015, 00:04

Hellstrom wrote:
You don't have any HQ, Elites or Heavy's, which was your original criteria. You have 2 Formations. Your formations builds look ok, I wouldn't bother WWPing the second Grot squad though. Just burn over the table.

Greetings and thank you for replying.

What exactly do you mean with that I don't have an HQ, Elites or Heavy's?

HQ = 2 Heamonculi and 1 Archon
Elites = 2 units of Grotesques
Heavy = 1 Talos and 1 Cronos

The reason why I plan on using the WWP instead of another Raider is because from my understanding I most likely will not be getting within 6" of the enemy without going all out either with Enhanced Aethersails 24" or without 18". Either way, I won't be shooting that phase which will mess up my Armor Of Misery + Archangel Of Pain + Freakish Spectacle combo, because I can still shoot when I teleport right next to an enemy unit. Lastly, the Raider, which will definetly need a Night Shield for max surviveability will cost me 70 points whereas the WWP only costs me 35.


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Hellstrom
Wych
Hellstrom


Posts : 515
Join date : 2014-11-24
Location : South Central England

[ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06 2015, 11:55

All of your models are taken from Formations. Therefore do not fill any of the standard FOC slots. You aren't taking a CAD, therefore aren't picking any models from an HQ slot, or an Elite slot. This is perfectly legal in a standard game, I'm just wondering if it is allowed in yours....
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omkara
Kabalite Warrior
omkara


Posts : 128
Join date : 2015-04-05

[ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06 2015, 12:07

Hellstrom wrote:
All of your models are taken from Formations.  Therefore do not fill any of the standard FOC slots.  You aren't taking a CAD, therefore aren't picking any models from an HQ slot, or an Elite slot.  This is perfectly legal in a standard game, I'm just wondering if it is allowed in yours....

I'm completely new to the 7th edition rules, so I did not know that this was what you meant by me having no HQ, Elites or Heavies. I'm not playing any tournaments, only with friends so I'm guessing they will oblige me in this, especially since you mention this being perfectly legal in a standard game which leads me to assume that I could play a tournament with this army in terms of legality?
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Hellstrom
Wych
Hellstrom


Posts : 515
Join date : 2014-11-24
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[ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06 2015, 12:17

Because 7th Edition is so open in allowing you take pretty much anything you like (read unbound), tournament organisers nearly always set their own restrictions, so it would be very much on a case by case basis.
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omkara
Kabalite Warrior
omkara


Posts : 128
Join date : 2015-04-05

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PostSubject: Re: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06 2015, 12:37

Hellstrom wrote:
Because 7th Edition is so open in allowing you take pretty much anything you like (read unbound), tournament organisers nearly always set their own restrictions, so it would be very much on a case by case basis.

Allright thanks again for replying. One more thing, you mentioned my formation build looks "ok". Is there anything, apart from our difference in opinion regarding the WWP vs Raider, that you would do differently?

I've seen so many DE players with Blasterborn + Venom that I just wanted to do something original. While my fear based playstyle might not shake those whom are Fearless or have the ATSKNF rule, they should still succumb relatively easy to my hand-to-hand combat oriented army, forcing them to take leadership tests with preferably -1 or -2 LD (depending on if those 2 formations are both within 12" of the enemy unit that needs to make this roll and not even taking into account that -2 LD from Armor of Mistery could be added to this as well) and add to this the -X LD for each model a unit lost... this should, at least in theory, be potentially devastating.

When facing an army where the majority of models are space marines or fearless I'll remove the Archangel of Pain and Phantasm Grenades and invest into something else. Probably even removing the Webway Portal and giving myself a second Raider which you advised.
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Deamon
Sybarite
Deamon


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Join date : 2012-05-09
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[ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06 2015, 17:32

Keeping Grotesques in reserve is usually a bad idea.
Turn 1 they do nothing.
Turn 2, if you're lucky they arrive and do nothing.
So at best, they are going to assault something on turn 3. You are lacking any form of reserve manipulations so 1/3 of the times they won't assault anything before turn 4.

As suggested, I would keep them on the table to make sure they can assault on turn 2.
Liquifier are a bad idea on them for 2 reasons : First, now that they are S3 they are not that good. Secondly, they will make your assault distance longer if they kill some models. Grots don't have fleet so it's usually best to not shoot with them before they charge.

These changes should save you some points but since you don't have a CAD, I'm not sure what else you could do with them... you could upgrade the Archon from PW to Agoniser which would bemuch better for him. Giving him an HWG would also be a good move.

I doubt you can do it, but if you manage to squeeze a CAD in there, a spare raider for your Grots would be worth it.
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omkara
Kabalite Warrior
omkara


Posts : 128
Join date : 2015-04-05

[ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon Empty
PostSubject: Re: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06 2015, 19:11

Deamon wrote:
Keeping Grotesques in reserve is usually a bad idea.
Turn 1 they do nothing.
Turn 2, if you're lucky they arrive and do nothing.
So at best, they are going to assault something on turn 3.  You are lacking any form of reserve manipulations so 1/3 of the times they won't assault anything before turn 4.

As suggested, I would keep them on the table to make sure they can assault on turn 2.
Liquifier are a bad idea on them for 2 reasons : First, now that they are S3 they are not that good.  Secondly, they will make your assault distance longer if they kill some models.  Grots don't have fleet so it's usually best to not shoot with them before they charge.

These changes should save you some points but since you don't have a CAD, I'm not sure what else you could do with them... you could upgrade the Archon from PW to Agoniser which would bemuch better for him.  Giving him an HWG would also be a good move.  

I doubt you can do it, but if you manage to squeeze a CAD in there, a spare raider for your Grots would be worth it.

Greetings and thank you as well for replying.

Isn't the case with deep striking units in general that it's unclear whether or not they will be doing anything at all for the first couple of turns? But at the same time, isn't that just how W40k works considering almost your entire plan of success is based off on chance?

The thing is that I feel like it might give me a better strategic advantage to be able to place my Grotesque + Archon unit exactly where I want it, which is preferably within 6" of 2 enemy units so I can maximize the potential Archangel Of Pain casualties. I am going to assume that maximizing the enemy LD reduction might prove a lot more difficult when I need to position that unit with a Raider.
That being said, should I be fighting armies with lots of Fearless or ATSKNF units, I will have to drop the Archangel Of Pain and Phantasm Grenades tactic which in my consideration prefers the Webway Portal, which I will then also drop in favor of a Raider.

When I actually do roll lucky and can position my Grotesque + Archon squad and have used the Archangel of Pain tactic I am going to assume that my opponent will try to charge me, or at the very least shoot at me, in which, from that point on, the 12,  toughness 5, wounds from 4 Grotesques should make me survive that decision, especially if my Dark Artisan's Cronos is within 12" because of the +1 on FNP.

At first I thought the Liquifier Gun wasn't that important, but then I saw it's an Assault Template weapon. At the very least it should prove somewhat useful against opponents with lower toughness and otherwise, well, w40k is always a bit of a gamble. Eitherway, considering it's an assault weapon, why would it matter for my units to shoot and then charge? Isn't that the rule of assault weapons that they're especially for shooting and charging? Might be missing something here considering im new to the 7th edition rules.

The tip for the agoniser on my Archon is a good one. Should really help out when soultrap makes him stronger to help him reroll wounds. Considering Im at my point limit now I will have to take that one in matches against fearless and ATSKNF armies.
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PostSubject: Re: [ 1200 points ] Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon   [ 1200 points ]  Dark Artisan + Grotesquerie + Archon I_icon_minitime

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