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 1850 DE with Grotesquerie

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 05 2015, 13:13

Hey guys, got a few tournaments coming up and wanted a bit of critique on my list. I think it's all *pretty* standard Dark Eldar stuff, but here goes:

Dark Eldar CAD

Archon 175
Agoniser, Blaster, Shadowfield, Webway Portal

Court of the Archon 90
Medusae, Venom with 2 Cannons

Kabalite Warriors 105
5 Warriors, Venom with 2 Cannons

Kabalite Warriors 105
5 Warriors, Venom with 2 Cannons

Kabalite Warriors 105
5 Warriors, Venom with 2 Cannons

Razorwing Jetfighter 150
2 Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon

Razorwing Jetfighter 150
2 Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon

Ravager 125
3 Dark Lances

Ravager 125
3 Dark Lances

Ravager 125
3 Dark Lances

Grotesquerie Formation

Haemonculus 130
Webway Portal, Liquefier Gun, Scissorhands

Grotesques 240
5 Grotesques, 3 Liquefier Guns, Aberration with Scissorhands

Grotesques 225
5 Grotesques, 2 Liquefier Guns, Aberration with Scissorhands


Basic plan is to aim for reserve manipulation via warlord trait (risky), and drop the two Grotesque units wherever they will cause the most havok. Meanwhile the Venoms/Ravagers take out the big hitters from a safe distance.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 05 2015, 14:16

The archon is a little pricey for my tastes. If you're set on keeping him (more on that in a sec) I would say drop the blaster as I'm assuming you want him in a grot unit.

On the subject of the archon...why an archon and not a succubus? She's better in assault and will get guaranteed ap 2. The only thing the archon seems to get you is the shadowfield and the court...which...

The shadowfield is nice as it lets you tank instant death/s10 hits, but you fail one of those and that expensive (even after dropping the blaster) archon is gone. Unless you're sure there's going to be a ridiculous amount of that at the tournament I would just use the suc and keep the unit clear of any ID/s10 you do find.

One medusae chillin' in a venom just doesn't strike me as all that worthwhile. Is there something you had in mind that I'm just not seeing? She has a cool gun, but only having one in your army doesn't really accomplish much.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 05 2015, 14:29

My guess would be the medusa is the warlord so the Archon doesn't give up a vp when it dies?

If your archon is intent on getting into cc wouldn't a blast pistol be better? only thin gyou lose out on is range but with a WWP that's not significant surely?

Personal preference I'd go with 2x 10 warriors in dark lance raider with splinter racks rather than the 3 venoms, but that's cos I prefer being able to jink.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 05 2015, 15:12

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
My guess would be the medusa is the warlord so the Archon doesn't give up a vp when it dies?

As I understand the rules, that's not possible. Medusae are not characters and as long as there is at least one character in the army, that must be the warlord?

About the list: Looks more or less solid, the only thing is said medusa ... if you intend to WWP the grots in, I'd drop the court and use the points for more grots. They are though, but will die in smaller numbers, unless locked in combat. And as you can't charge right after deepstriking (WWP is still treated as a normal deepstrike, just without scatter), your grots will get shot at a whole turn, and I promise you, they will be target no.1 as they are scary indeed!

Personally, I'd change the archon for a succubus too. While I really like the archon, he just doesn't cut it anymore in the current codex/ruleset Sad

Personally I like to run the grotesquerie in raiders with sails, nearly guaranteed charge in the second turn (even if the raider explodes and they get pinned, at the start of turn 2 they are fearless and shrug of the effects of going to ground). Also with two units of grot up their face, the rest of the army gets less attention (hopefully).

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 05 2015, 23:08

Well pretty much the entire point of the Medusae is to get a slightly cheaper Venom. Feels weird taking to the board with less than 4. And he helps a lot with clearing out drop-podding marines.

As for Archon vs Succubus...Well I haven't really tried a Succubus under the new rules. Intend to do so soon. My feeling is that AP2 isn't really necessary, I'd rather just shoot 2+ targets with Lances and Venoms. I just use the Archon to deal with units that would take too long to shoot away, like 10 Man Tac squads and the like. And tanking those ID wounds is super valuable.

If I were to use a Succubus, what's the standard 'internet approved' loadout? And what should I do with the points it nets me?

And as for using raiders with the Grotesques...I have 2, but they're in my old color scheme, and I'd really rather not strip them and paint them up again. So I'm pretty set on dropping the Grotesques in and using the Liqufier guns to clear as much of a hole as I can.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 05 2015, 23:37

I have run grots with a portal a few times.
While nice it can get really annoying when you opponent just drives away from them giving them nothing to assault. Or they often get to kill one unit and spend all game chasing others around. One thing I would try to consider is is it worth it to drop one grot from each unit and drop the Medusa to give the grots raiders instead. You can keep the portals for the DS option which is a good idea. If you DS with a raider on you turn the unit can move farther so it makes it easier for them to get into assault. Vehicle moves 6", they jump out 6 and charge.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 06 2015, 00:01

The way I run my succubuses is one with the glaive, haywire grenades, and the armor of misery, and the other but either drop the armor or switch it out for the helm of spite (think that's what it's called, the anti psyker one). Mine are always in my grotesquerie grot squads which are in raiders. I would say she should work just fine as a sub for what you were doing with your archon though...Going the AoM route and adding in the WWP she's 25 cheaper than the archon, so you have a second medusae.

If you do the switch and drop the medusae and venom you have enough to buy a second succubus. With a few points left over. If you do the switch, drop the medusae and venom, get rid of the liquifiers and scissorhands (I've found them to be wasted points personally) you should have enough for a third razorwing minus the splintercannons. If I had three fliers I'd probably go that route (only have one myself), but if that won't work I'd grab as many grots as possible and call it good...after switching out the archon, dropping the medusae and venom, and cutting all the LGs and SHs.

As for cheap venoms, the archon could have got one as a DT, and you can get one with your empty fast attack slot.

As for deepstriking grots...I don't have as much experience as I'd like, but it seems to me that objectives should give you a good way to keep from having to chase units down. As shown in Mush's latest battle reports, what's worked for me so far is clustering objectives and having my slow stuff come down near the cluster or if the dice go right, start on the cluster. Relative speeds become a lot less of an issue.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 06 2015, 00:13

I can vouch for the Raiders on the Grotesques. Fast to get you into CC faster than the WWP (soonest is turn 3 if you Portal in), and resilient enough that they have to shoot the Raider to blow the Grotesques up next. Also, if the Raider lives, pick those beasties back up and move to where the action is because no one will stick around Grotesques for long.

I second the Succubus. The SF is nice, but very pricey. The Grotesques protect my Succubus well enough and with the chance of her being Toughness 4, Str. 6 weapons stop being a worry. Whereas they double out the Archon. 100 points nets you AP 2 and Haywire Grenades. AP 2 targets is what Grotesques struggle with anyway, she gives you that answer.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 06 2015, 07:50

Alright, took a few suggestions on board and this is the list I'll test out tonight:

HQ

Succubus  115
Archite Glaive, Armour of Misery, Haywire nades

Court of the Archon 115
2 Medusae, Venom with 2 cannons

TROOPS

Kabalite Warriors 120
5 Warriors, Syrabite with Haywire nades, Venom with 2 cannons

Kabalite Warriors 105
5 Warriors, Venom with 2 cannons

Kabalite Warriors 105
5 Warriors, Venom with 2 cannons

FAST ATTACK

Razorwing Jetfighter 150
2 Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon

Razorwing Jetfighter 150
2 Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon

HEAVY SUPPORT

Ravager 125
3 Dark Lances

Ravager 125
3 Dark Lances

Ravager 125
3 Dark Lances

FORMATION: GROTESQUERIE

Haemonculus 80
Scissorhands

Grotesques 260
4 Grotesques, 2 Liquefier Guns, Aberration with Scissorhands, Raider with Nightshields

Grotesques 275
4 Grotesques, 3 Liquefier Guns, Aberration with Scissorhands, Raider with Nightshields


I'm thinking I'll hold onto the Medusae Venom and the Scissorhands for now, the extra firepower and the rending attacks have proven invaluable in the past. Dropped the Archon for a Succubus, threw in another Medusae, and chucked out the Webway portals for Raiders. What do folks think about Nightshields on raiders?

Anywho, will let you know if this ends in glorious victory or total disaster in a few hours.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 06 2015, 16:11

I would consider adding Nightshields since you want that boat to survive as long as possible right? You don't want to lose your boat in your Deployment zone because of a failed save.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 06 2015, 17:28

Interested to hear how it goes Smile

I think NSs are mandatory for raiders...3+ jink is frustrating as hell for people to get through, especially when you don't let it make you careless with them.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 07 2015, 02:22

Rightio, tried out the list last night vs Sisters of Battle featuring an Imperial Knight, 2 Exorcists and a blob with Uriah in it. Game didn't go my way, but that was largely due to some poor decision making on my part, completely underestimating the staying power of the Uriah blob and generally poor luck. Also the terrain on the board consisted of a building and a pile of rocks on his side, and a scattered group of hills on my side barely larger than a skimmer stand. But that's just excuses at that point, I probably could have won with a bit better luck, better decisions and the game not going to turn 7.

Anyway, thoughts about the changes:

Succubus: Works pretty well, not as durable as the Archon, which I miss, and I think she needs an Agoniser to be good against everything, but overall worked alright.

Raiders: Work pretty well as a delivery system. 3+ Jink keeps them alive pretty well, too. Gives you a lot of options for where the Grots go, keeps them safe until they hit and gives them a bigger charge range.

Changes are pretty easy to get used to now I've seen them in action. Might drop one of the Medusae for an Agoniser on the Succubus, or perhaps a Liquefier in one Grot Squad and 10 points from somewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE with Grotesquerie   1850 DE with Grotesquerie I_icon_minitime

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