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 1850 - Kabal

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jbwms713
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: 1850 - Kabal   1850 - Kabal I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 01 2015, 01:37

Hey all -

quick preamble: I've only gotten a few games in (actually, just two?) with the new book, so while I've been playing DE for years, there are still some adjustments to be made, and some units have changed enough that... well.. you know how it goes.
I've recently adjusted the list and have something I think will be worth trying out... I'll throw in a few notes at the end with other thoughts...


Archon - Aggy, Clone Field, Soul Trap, WWP
Court - 3x Sslyth, Medusae -- Raider
Haemy - Scissorhand, WWP

Grotesque x3 -- Raider
Trueborn x5 - 4x Blaster -- Venom + Cannon

Warriors x10 - Cannon -- Raider + Lance, Splinter Racks
Warriors x10 - Cannon -- Raider + Lance, Splinter Racks
Warriors x5 - Blaster -- Venom + Cannon
Warriors x5 - Blaster -- Venom + Cannon

Razorwing - Lances
Scourge x5 - 4x Haywire Blaster

Ravager - 3x Lance
Ravager - 3x Lance

H'okay, so...

First note, considering dropping the Raider on the grotesques, which would free points for a 4th body and a full Shadowfield on the Archon. Considering the Clone Field because the unit is more of a scalpel and plans to avoid any big nasties anyway. The unit as a whole is best for clearing moderate-armor "troop" types.

I originally had Reavers in (6 with caltrops) but I have yet to have success with the new unit. Well, depends how you count. Lots of success getting blown off the board before they do anything (2+ cover saves, even!). Big footprint, small durability (story of our life). I'd like the unit to work, but at this point it just seems too easy to remove, even without ignoring cover. A 3+ only goes so far...

2 units with WWP, both T5, both with ablative Raiders. Obviously the court is more well-rounded while the grots are pure beatstick. Both have Dissies because Dissie > Lance vs AV10, and I can drop them behind a tank with safety (unless someone is hugging their board edge completely, in which case that's its own win).

Beyond that pretty standard... the raider gunboats unload some serious poison at 12", or can hold back and lance/cannon from a distance if necessary. I know a lot of people seem to favor the Venom squads, and often only a couple, but I really like what the Raider squads can do... and frankly I've been pretty annoyed with lances lately, and the only option seems to be "pack more in" to mitigate our average chances with them.

Note on Scourges - tried a game with Heat Lances vs IG. They DS in, attempt to slag a tank... alas he passes 2 out of 3 6+ cover saves (curse you camo nets!)... else it would have been toast... but either way, they were promptly removed via helhound. Not that I expected them to last, but I was seduced by the sweet sweet Heat Lance to try them out. Also dislike the Haywire's reasonable inability to deal with non-armor things (Hello Nids?). Still, for the cost, I think it's an efficiency that the army needs.

In the end, I know I'm asking "Hey, what do you think about this pretty bog-standard list?", but... you never know. Mainly trying to make it all work. I do have some options... could fake a 2nd Trueborn squad in place of one of the Raider squads (points are just about right)... but larger squads are more likely to get to use Fearless for objectives late game, plus ObSec on said squad? Could be big.

Enough ranged AT? Should I really try for the Shadowfield? Should I be brave and just run a wych cult?
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spellcheck2001
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 - Kabal   1850 - Kabal I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 01 2015, 07:58

Everything looks pretty cool to me. Only a few things I would change/not include.

Shadow fields are totally not worth the cost anymore. 45 points is a massive tax on an hq model that is pretty poor now. If you want a cc character run a succubus with armour of misery and archite glaive. Put her in the grot unit (buff it to 4 models, one an aberration) for the toughness boost and you will fins she will last just as long as with a shadowfield. In my opinion archon's are really not worth it anymore.

What is the purpose for the haemy? Can't really see a place for him and think you could drop him and the court of the archon. If you run your archon/succubus with the grots both these are unessessary and tbh the court is a little small to be effective. Dropping both these should give you quite a few spare points. Maybe add another unit of haywire scourges, or a razorwing/talos ect?

Just my thoughts Smile

SC jocolor

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jbwms713
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 - Kabal   1850 - Kabal I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 01 2015, 13:41

Thanks for the feedback.

The current idea is for the Archon to run with the Court, and the Haemy with the Grots. Both gain the T5 bonus, and both have slightly different roles/preferred targets. How big would you suggest a Court needs to be? I don't have any Sslyth converted up yet (of course I have plenty of UrGhuls made -_-), so it's a touch open-ended.

I'm disappointed with the Archon myself, on paper. I've decided that I need to give a few units a thorough test before shrugging them off, though - Lance Ravagers got a lot more expensive, Archon lost his "perma-threat" status... but if I don't play them, I can't possibly learn how they *do* work now, so I figure I should at least try. My thought behind the Archon/Court is that the unit as a whole is really best for med-T (3-5) units with up to a 3+ save... which really gives them a pretty nice spectrum of things to hit in any given army.
The new cost of the shadowfield is something I'm torn on... while I don't like it going up by that much, I can see the benefit of having it last an entire phase... especially when you can start tanking wounds on it, while LoS!'ing anything S6-9 onto a well-placed Sslyth (with the same "save" for your Archon). It starts to be closer to a unit upgrade than a model upgrade, at that point, which definitely has its uses.

That said, I do see the benefit of simply spending less points and opting for a 4+ for the same reason - I can simply LoS wounds to Sslyth for the same effective save, with a 4++ backup. I don't want him getting into combat with anything nasty until the soultrap is powered up, and that can be easily shut down by an opponent not accepting a challenge, so... shrug? I originally had the Armor of Misery on him for the neg Ld, to (hopefully) force their hand into accepting to not lose *more* Ld, or risk a sweeping advance. If I dropped the Grotesques' Raider, I could put that back on, as well as have the 4th body there (and 5 more points - Haywire, probably).

PS - the Haemy in the Grot unit guarantees that they have Furious Charge by the time they assault, which is a nice little bonus, in addition to the necessary Ld buff. Re-rolling 2's to wound vs Marines is... well... we all know how that is Twisted Evil
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